"...ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein,
and ye shall find rest for your souls....." Jeremiah 6:16
"Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set..." ~ Proverbs 22:28
"I believe that those sermons which are fullest of Christ are the most likely to be blessed to the conversion of the hearers. Let your sermons be full of Christ, from beginning to end crammed full of the Gospel. As for myself, brethren, I cannot preach anything else but Christ and His Cross, for I know nothing else, and long ago, like the Apostle Paul, I determined not to know anything else save Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
~ C. H. Spurgeon ~
"We need a baptism of clear seeing. We desperately need seers who can see through the mist--Christian leaders with prophetic vision. Unless they come soon it will be too late for this generation. And if they do come we will no doubt crucify a few of them in the name of our worldly orthodoxy." ~ A. W. Tozer
"Depend upon it, if you are bent on prayer, the devil will not leave you alone. He will molest you, tantalize you, block you, and will surely find some hindrances, big or little or both. And we sometimes fail because we are ignorant of his devices…I do not think he minds our praying about things if we leave it at that. What he minds, and opposes steadily, is the prayer that prays on until it is prayed through, assured of the answer." ~ Mary Warburton Booth
AS history shows, the church can only expect true Revival when a remnant of God's people get DESPERATE - desperate about the backslidden state of the church, desperate about the lukewarmness within them and all around them, desperate about sin and compromise, desperate about the fact that God is not GLORIFIED, that He is not truly LORD of His church, that His words are mocked and largely seen as irrelevant by a dying world....
~ The Two Secrets Of Revival - by Andrew Strom
Hi PJ, I found this and thought that it was well written concerning the prophetic movement http://www.truetohisways.com/samplenine.html
milinda
Thanks Milinda!
I followed your link this afternoon and read it–its a very good article. Well worth the reading for those who are following or questioning this revival or Bentley’s teachings.
Just a portion, but i would encourage anyone to read it all
Well-known charismatic Todd Bentley, who claims to receive frequent visitations from angels, travels widely for “Catch the Fire” events to impart occult visions in shaktipat-type practices. He writes voluminously on the topic, and has posted many articles on the Web. In one such article he writes:
Mr. Bentley visited a church in North Dakota and reportedly imparted paranormal perception to the pastor’s wife. The pastor wrote:
While in a trance Julie both heard and saw angels, demonstrating siddhi-like powers of clairaudience and clairvoyance. Similar occult visions were reported by others at a “Catch the Fire” event in Tucson, Arizona, featuring Gary and Kathi Oates. Mr. and Mrs. Oates are reportedly so advanced in siddhi-like power that “God’s presence invaded the auditoriums each time Gary and Kathi ministered.”[7] Here is the testimony of a young woman who attended this event:
The angelic message in the above testimony sounds biblical and reverent. But consider the occult elements. Enchanted by a presence brought by empowered leaders, unmotivated weeping, paranormal seeing: could it be that this woman really saw and heard an angel from God? Of course not. First, it came as a result of occult practice; that alone is reason enough to reject it.
But we see also that this “angel” is not teaching the Jesus of the gospel who comes through the word of truth
It teaches an occult Jesus who comes by invocation and manifest presence, and imparts siddhi-like powers. Next, angels do not awaken our hunger for God; this is the work of the Holy Spirit. And last, Scripture teaches that not only will demons pretend to worship the Lord, they can and will declare His deity, and even proclaim His work of salvation. The demon that Paul cast out of the prophetess in Philippi caused her to announce his mission as God’s servant to declare the way of salvation. Every word she spoke was true. But Paul was not pleased, and clearly discerned the demonic source (see Acts 16:16-18). We must not be fooled by pious appearances.
Another charismatic at the Tucson, Arizona event reported the following:
Note how the writer above refers to the opening of eyes to see more of the angelic realm—a classic third eye opening. What is also interesting about the husband’s experience is how he refers to “his” angel not once, but twice. This is no doubt linked to the concept of finding your own guardian angel.
Angels: a biblical view
Teachings about finding, and even conversing with, your own guardian angel are increasingly common in charismatic circles. But these are occult counterfeits of biblical teaching about protective angels.
While many passages of Scripture indicate that angels are assigned to guide and protect people (Hebrews 1:14 says that angels are ministering spirits who help God’s children), nowhere are we commanded to ask for “spiritual eyes” so we can see them and hear them. This is occult thinking.
Only a brief excursion into ancient and modern teachings of magicians and other occult seekers reveals that they have always been preoccupied with angels, demons and guardian angels. Read the following written by an accomplished medieval magician—Abraham the Jew, also known as Abramelin the Mage—an “expert” on guardian angels, who wrote to his own son,
Abramelin the Mage, like those at the Tucson church, says angels come with a manifest, loving spiritual presence—and odors, as also reported by the Toronto church and other charismatic congregations:
While angels are mentioned in the Bible over 350 times, only a small number of groups or individuals—fewer than 40 over approximately 1,500 years of biblical history—are reported to have seen them. However, mystics teach that anyone, if they go about it the right way—that is, through the occult—can find their own angel. Thousands of angel sightings have been reported by charismatics and other mystics.
Why are believers looking for angels when our eyes are to be fixed upon Jesus?
Why did the young woman in North Dakota say “I want more”?
Is this not to set up angels as idols?
Paul wrote to the Colossians, “Let no one defraud you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head…” (Colossians 2:18-19).
While it is clear from biblical accounts that God sometimes communicates through angels, this is definitely no reason to dabble in the occult. The Bible portrays angelic appearances as extraordinary phenomena. Insofar as God’s children are concerned, such appearances are never experienced through, or as a result of, occult practice…..
Thank you for posting this and it could not have come at a more opportune time, for discernment for a dear friend and sister in the Lord who sent an email to me about this revival event.
Todd Bentley’s unorthodox manner of ministry is not an indication of the power or the anointing of God on his life. His jerking movements and laughter too, as seen in this video (todd-bentley-florida-healing-revival-) could not possibly be of God. Where is behavior like this found in Scripture?
If a person reads Matthew 9:35, Luke 4:18, 9:2, these verses show us that Jesus preached the gospel to people first, then people were healed by the good news He had spoken.
When Jesus sent his disciples out, they were instructed to preach the gospel to people first and healing would occur after. The Gospel really should precede anything to people.
There are also instances where Jesus healed people and had not preached the gospel first. Those were instances of people who had come to Jesus asking for healing of someone in their household.
My point is that if God has anointed anyone with such a gift, why would they need to advertise it? Jesus didn’t, nor did the Apostles after His ascension.
Jesus’ primary focus of ministry was about saving souls. Healing is just an added blessing to a person because of the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Revival can come and will come, when the Body of Christ has united in prayer and fasting, to seek the Lord for His presence and power, to be seen, felt and heard especially among those who are unsaved.
Revival is not staged twitching of the body or an apparent physical exhaustion followed by an immediate rejuvenation of strength to walk as if nothing happened.
Revival occurs when lives are radically changed, where there is a greater demonstration of God’s power and presence in and outside of the church than by what we see happening in today’s church culture in society (seeker-friendly, emerging churches, etc..).
Revival happens because of the Gospel and those who are going into the world to preach repentance and remission of sins to people throughout all the world (Luke 24:47, Mark 16:15).
I think this article below, which may have been posted on your blog previously, would be a better example of revival and what each individual Christian should do, to see its manifestation.
Thanks for posting this.
When God Stepped Down From Heaven by Rev. Owen Murphy
http://www.evanwiggs.com/revival/prinpray/godstep.html
Kurt, im so glad i caught your comment…it was mis-directed to my spam for some reason.
Anyway, yes yes yes!! I agree with everything you said…
If you go back through history every great move of God or God sent revival preceded a season, and some times those seasons were long, of the Church humbling themselves, seeking God and deeply repenting. ONCE THE CHURCH had done this, THEN revival broke out, and many lost were saved in the surrounding areas;(being added to the Church)
Todays man made ‘revivals’ appear to only be about outward manifestations.
Jesus got by without selling any CDs. Maybe these guys should give the Jesus method a try.
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
Yes, these ‘revivals’ today always seem to turn into a money making production Marianne.
By the way, thanks for including the link to your blog! At some point i believe i actually was reading on it a few months ago…
I’ll bookmark it this time.
WHEW! I’m glad you found it. I was beginning to wonder where it went.
aha! I had a similar problem a couple weeks back. Any time i tried to leave a comment elsewhere it wasn’t ever showing up–after asking wordpress about it they said ‘once in awhile’ non spam comments will get sent to spam. Since then i check my spam a couple times a day.
I think you should give it a shot- actually view the revival for a week and maybe consider going. I was there, and found it to be totally opposite to what you wrote- the interesting thing is…. you could be using Scripture to fight Scripture- for example in Acts 2, you would probably use the same Matt 7:15 against Acts 2, judging by your tone. If you want to be totally fair and sincere, tune in for a week or two- but take care. Don’t take shots at leaders/people who actually have more ‘revival’ (the true Life of Christ) than yourself, more souls saved, more orphans helped and more widows helped in Africa. As an African missionary, I think you need to be fair, instead of just critical- for example anyone can have a blog that criticizes leaders… but few people actually go out and serve others. Anyone can tear a house down, but few carpenters can actually build a good house. This doesnt mean we should not use discernment- but please, lets not shoot our own brothers/ soldiers in Christ! Honestly, the way some people talk on the internet (supposed ‘Christians’
they would never want to be ‘talked about’ like that– or their family, friends or churches.
John, i hope in your reading the OP you understood it was not my first hand testimony, but a link to someone elses testimony to what they observed at one of Bentley’s fresh-fire conferences.
Just wanted to clear that up…
What i have attempted to do, concerning this topic of the Lakeland revival and Todd Bentley is post links to reliable posts/writings elsewhere, who have either attended or are aware of the circumstances surrounding these meetings and/or Bentley himself; (his teachings, etc)
In the meantime i’ve done my own research (and yes, watched a couple of the services on-line) into Todd Bentley’s teachings and beliefs–and to say i found his teachings disturbing is putting it mildly.
There appears right now, to be a surge within the Church of EXTREME teachings coming forth–prophetically and having to do with the spiritual realm, in particular Angels. These HAVE to be researched and held up to the only ‘mirror’ of truth we as believers can depend upon: the Word of God.
Having done some pretty extensive research over the last 6 months on the over-the-top, going WAY beyond scripture teachings of Patrica King, and concluding that Bentley is very involved with her and her ministry, it would only be logical, which it is, to surmise that Bentley himself, and his own teachings needed to be looked at closely. Surely you can understand that…
As you don’t know me by anything i teach John, i don’t believe you are qualified to know how much of ‘the true life of Christ’ i possess, as i cannot make any type of judgment in this area concerning you–not knowing you through your teachings as well.
Todd Bentley, on the other hand, has posted many teachings of his own on his website, including the selling of these teachings in book form or/and CD’s.
And that is why is it absolutely needful and necessary that we know and discern what ground this ‘house’ of revival’ is being built upon: is it being built on the solid Rock of Biblical teachings, the Word of God, or is being built on the sifting sand of teachings concerning such claims as ‘Angels being witnessed entering into peoples bodies’….trips to heaven to visit the “house” of Paul, etc etc? If it is the latter, many can and will be led astray–away from the truth.
I have come to the realization that any true work of God holds up under scrutiny by the Church.
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
I am disheartened by what I feel is judgment and criticism by “Christian brothers”. This is nothing more than a gossip fest and TRUE discernment and repentance is needed here!!
God has been ministering to me powerfully through this revival, by way of God TV. I was very lukewarm for 8 yrs and didn’t even realize how much. Now, I am on fire in my spirit– with a thirst and hunger for JESUS like never before. I am thankful for God TV, for Todd Bentley and for this revival. I pray that we all are ignited with fresh passion to win souls for the Kingdom~~ Peace,Char
http://www.faithnews.cc/articles.cfm?sid=8886
Char,
You are correct, true discernment is needed today–Godly discernment, not flesh prompted.
I would ask in all love, that you pray for God to open your eyes..
For if Bentley’s account of seeing and communicating with an Angel named Emma, who when she shows up levitates and floats 2 inches above the floor, while sprinkling “gold dust” upon those she passes…and her very presence causes a pastor’s wife to bark like a dog, is accepted by you as from God, there is nothing more to say…you are deceived.
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. Rev.3:18
all this does not have to thought of as “judgment” but rather debate. No one really has to agree with everything that is said.
I never knew who bentley was before all this. I thought a bentley was a car !! ha ha
controversy just makes people think more….
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
Awakening a sleeping giant?
I am familiar with some of the teachings of Pat King (aka Cocking) and Todd Bentley, and to be fair - was quite surprised to see him involved in this. But, the strongest point which stands out is there is no word being taught at all, and very rarely is a scripture even referred to. Many people have been affected positively, and feel like their love for Christ has been awakened. But what is it about this move, that brings up questions? There is no word being presented, there is no true repentance, and it has, by large part been turned into an advert for GOD TV. I cannot see this as the final outpouring of God, because I believe that true revival comes from true repentance, and not from people seeking God’s hand, and what He can do for us. Because it turns into a debacle where , if you were saved in one of these meetings, your only understanding is a tangible presence, but no substance to it. And the word is meant to be meaty. Are we converting people to a false message - that God is about what He can do for you, instead of what He has already done. Is repentance going to be true if people don’t even know why they need Jesus, if they don’t even know the cross of calvary, if they only have an experience - what will be the basis of their faith? It concerns me that there seems to be no substance to this. Any true movement of God has always involved sincere repentance and I have not seen that…and yes I have watched the revival for nearly nine days.
This “angel” thing, visitations etc came into focus right after the word, or faith movement was sweeping our nations. For a long time i thought i was wrong, not having any of these encounters, but final i realised that it was GOD protecting me from evil, and i left the babylonic church, the charismatic “want to be like jesus” church.
“I cannot see this as the final outpouring of God”
Nither can i and i dont find in the word that it will come this way in the end, rather i see it will be a very dificult time for the the people of God.
if we are truly in the last days….we will not see an outpouring of too much that is positive…..we are supposed to be witnessing a falling away right now..
I see it…not sure if anyone else does or not..
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
The reason i am writing this is to let people know my experence when i went to the revival. more than one time.When i arrived in Auburndale i stood in a large line for quite some time then a man came out and said to leave if we wanted We will have a new service monday we are now full.So i stayed and waited as people left they allowed people to entewr 2 or 3 at a time.After i made it in.The band was playing music and talking to the crowd of people this was hyping the crowd up.Than another person came out to speak to the crowd of people even hyping them up more like at a pop festival where the anouncer comes out and hypes up the crowd and works them hard till the band comes out to play.Then Todd walked up and started talking. He called out for people to come up there but at that time they would not let hardly anyone up there they had several people blocking you from entering the stage.I tried to get up there and was not allowed to all they were interested in was testimonium .They had people with pen and paper asking the people questions to see if they would let them up on the stage.Questions like were you healed what happen what did you feel can you bend show me. ,twist,do push ups,run if the person said they were healed and showed them they could run,bend,or what ever, after they screened them very very well then they would allow them up on the stage where Todd would talk to them but he had nothing to lose by this, because the person up there said they were healed than he would push on them or blow at them and say something depending on what was wrong with them.So i am sure it did’nt take the people long to figuire out very few would get on that stage with out telling the people who screened them a great story and how you were healed or in the process of being healed.If your story was not good enough you still didnt get on stage.And people were there to have Todd lay hands on them and be healed.So my opinion is that people would give him what he wanted to hear to get up there on stage anything to get him to lay hands on them.After the TV show was over they asked for money which i know it cost money for him to be here and pay all of his workers.That night he had 2 lines of people come to him and he touched all of the crowd as they rushed by him quickly just to see a very few fall from the power.That night he talked about pain medicine and said to get off of it and said diabetes would be healed ,high blood pressure, and several others. When Todd put his hands on me he did say Healed.So the next 4 days i went off of all my medications and belived i was totaly healed. The next day i was in pain from not taking my pain medicine,then my blood pressure went up along with my sugar but i still held on rebuking the pain and sickness i was having and my eyes went blury from not taking my medicine for my diabetes.So i wrote god tv and told them what was going on and asked them if i should continue off my medicine but they never called or e-mailed me back.So i though if i went back and prayed harder i would be healed so i went to there lakeland service.Any way i have been touched by Todd 3 times now and i am not going back there is no need to.And no i am still sick. All i know is i was there and not healed and had my son with me who has bad eyes and he was driving, on our way home and i told him to take off his glasses and he did and put them back on right away .I asked him why did you put your glasses back on he said because i cant see .I have seen several people return in there wheel chairs and others familiar faces there looking to be healed.I belive that if todd didnt block the stair case with his people which reminded me of bouncers and detectives. And let people come up there freely with out stoping them and interrogating them ,that you would not hear all these testimonies.And as for miracles did i see any all of the times i was there No i don’t belive so.Take what i say with a grain of salt, all i can tell you i am speaking the truth. I was there for what ever its worth.
anon, thank you and God bless you for sharing your experience…that was what i was hoping for in any of the posts on this revival: comments either pro or con from someone who attended.
In the next few days, what i’d ‘like’ to do, God willing, is do some research on the aftermath of a revival such as this one–looking into past moves (like the recent Toronto blessing, Brownsville, and even going back to revivals in the last 200 years) for evidence of any long-lasting affects, good or bad…or did it produce Godly lasting permanent fruit in those who attended, how it affected the city in which it was held, etc etc etc….
I may come back and pull a few quotes from your comment, if its ok with you…
Oops! almost forgot…in a post i put up tonight…its actually a newsletter sent out by Andrew Strom, he is asking for help from anyone who has attended. Its at the end of his letter which you can read HERE.
I was in the Lakeland Revival last weekend. I personally know some people who have been healed there. We have a person in the church I lead who was healed of partial deafness in our meetings (we are an overflow room for the revival). One of the girls in the church called her 84 year old grandmother, prayed for her and she was healed of her partial deafness. She no longer needs her hearing aids to hear. One of the pastor’s wives in town was healed last night - it was televised on God TV, so I will be able to watch that one as well.
The thing I noticed in the city of Lakeland was the openness of the people I witnessed to while I was there. There was more openness to the Gospel than I have seen in years.
Revival is a potential happening within each person. It’s a heart to heart with the Lord Jesus Christ. It comes through repentance and forgiveness. It is not a show, and doesn’t happen in crowds.
At least that is the story of “my revival”.
My revival didn’t bring earthly riches, or a healed body.
It brought true Union with my Lord. I KNOW who I am because of who He IS.
I saw no angels. Oil and laying on of hands didn’t cause my revival, even though I have been anointed with oil and have had ‘hands laid on me’.
Searching, prayer, and even desperation, a lot of solitude, and an open Bible, brought it about.
The result is an 100% assurance of my relationship with the Lord.
Can you see it? Probably not. My fruit isn’t riches, as I’ve said. It isn’t a temporary healing. [All physical healing is temporary.]
Maybe you can see it. I don’t have to spend my wages on a special trip to have a mere mortal do what Jesus Christ promised He would do if I had EARS to HEAR with.
I HAVE a relationship that I have paid a great price to gain.
How many of you have tried to be a “witness for the Lord”, and understand that price?
With each experience you feel like giving up and eventually do give up. You just get worn out. Yet your spirit will jump for joy as you read your Bible, and yet you fail to make anyone else see and want what you have. And that is the point of desperation I am talking about.
Most of the Apostles died violent deaths. They never had stages. But, who wants to be a Martyr these days?
Do these ‘evangelists’ really devote themselves to reading the Scriptures to draw closer to the Lord, just for their own benefit, before they preach to you?
How would you know this is what they do or don’t do?
Do they stand up there on a stage and tell you about Jesus?
Ask yourselves this question: There are about 20 people who gather themselves together and decide to hold a “revival”. They offer new hope for an age old problem - your health. They draw crowds of say 20,000 people. If each person there puts just $1.00 in the bucket that is $20,000.
Or $1,000 per night for each of the 20 of them. And the extra revenue, which there will be, because some are so awestruck, that they put in $5 or $10 or even $20, will pay for the rental on the stadium and the electric bill.
The next thing you know there is another plane in the air. 1 to 20 - $1,000,000 mansions being built, and your are sitting where?
Could you be sitting in your homes, with the same illnesses and whatever other problems you took to the stadium with you, along with the emotional trauma of being hurt or snubbed by a man of the cloth? Are you now turned off by the very thought of going to church or being with other “so-called Christians”? Are you just so confused you don’t want to hear any more?
My Bible tells me: 2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
That sounds to me like love, power, and a sound mind come from the Spirit of God, and overwhelm the spirit of fear that only satan would put on you.
And a sound mind is opposite of depression, oppression, and anything else that “presses” in on you.
Love - as ‘anon’ described in the post above, was absent at all the meetings attended.
Have you ever been to meetings where ALL you experience is LOVE? And left those meetings still not healed but experienced God’s love long afterward? I have. I guess the reason is that at those meetings we all came to just praise the Lord. And attending the next meeting the Love in our hearts grew even stronger.
And at each meeting people were given the opportunity to share what the LORD has been doing in their lives.
Your faith was being built up, not dragged through the mud.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
That Chapter is about Salvation. But first I’d like to ask this question: Is the REAL word of God being spoken at these meetings? Does the Holy Spirit within you witness to Himself, or is there a void. (In other words, if the Holy Spirit is in the “anointed man of God” He will witness to the Holy Spirit in you, if you are “filled with the Spirit”. Does this happen?
If it happens then you are experiencing a drink at the well of Living Water. You won’t go away feeling like you have drank vinegar instead.
As I just said, Romans 12 is about SALVATION. Preachers that are called by God WILL preach the Gospel of Salvation, because that is the desire God puts in a person he calls to preach.
If, at some point, healings take place, it won’t be because that was the only purpose of the meetings.
Every preacher that has failed has failed to deliver the message of salvation.
Every good preacher that has succeeded, as Billy Graham has, preached on this central message without being side tracked.
Turn on the TV and listen to every preacher you can and make a note of the ‘topic’ they preached on. Did he lead you to the Lord? Encourage you to draw closer into a more intimate union with Jesus Christ?
Listen to altar calls. Do they start out trying to bring you into union with Jesus and end up going down a different track? Perhaps praying for your healing, your marriage, etc.
I’ve known people who die from suicide because they had no hope. No true encouragement.
I have hope and encouragement, if only from the word of God, to keep on keeping on, in spite of any circumstance that I’m in. I have constant chronic pain with occasional flare ups when I least expect them.
I experience heartaches. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t.
I know I’m going to be an overcomer in all circumstances.
I STILL KNOW WHO I AM, AND WHO’S I AM. That makes all the difference.
One Todd Bently is not charging fro his meetings so he is not in it for the money, Why is it when something happens christians are the first to say it is not of God, is it because you are scared or your faith level is so low that this stuff can’t happen. How about praying about it and let God tell you if it is real or not. You should not put someone down, you should pray for them. This world has gotten to a point that if it doesn’t benifit you, you have nothing to do with it. I went to one of the revival meetings and I will tell you Gods presences is so strong there anything is possible. I watched little children getting healed and seeing Jesus heal them. Don’t put it down until you go and investigate it yourself. God bless you all and I pray god opens all you minds and hearts.
When I consider the many moves or those that have been deemed as moves of God a couple of simple questions needed to be asked -
1. Does it glorify Christ?
2. Is the preaching Biblical?
3. Supernatural manifestations are always present in revivals but do they draw attention to the speaker or point toward Christ?
4. Are souls being added to the Kingdom of God?
Let’s look at Pensacola Outpouring - there is no denying that the scriptures was taught, Christ was glorified, people were added to the Kingdom, lives were transformed, and the supernatural was manifested.
In fact when fleshy or demonic manifestations occurred they were dealt with immediately. Yes, there is emotion involved in revival name me one revival where emotion was not involved.
Anyway, I would suggest a couple of good books for folks to read regarding the manifestations that are taking place. By the way I do have a hard time with the angel thing but when one looks at the New Testament, especially the book of Acts, angels did appear but I don’t think there was an exchange of names!?!?! However, angels have announced themselves in the Scriptures. But they always delivered the message and pointed toward God.
Oh I mustn’t forget the books - When the Spirit comes with Power by John White; Azusa Street by Frank Bartleman, Let no one deceive you by Michael Brown, Jonathan Edwards on Revival by Jonathan Edwards, I saw the Welsh Revival by David Matthews.
There are many more I could mention especially about Holy Spirit outpourings and revivals. For a good online resource look up Leonard Ravenhill, J. Edwin Orr, and AW Tozer. You can find videos of Ravenhill and Orr to download. These men have a good grasp of revivals as they are both historians of moves of God and powerful preachers.
In closing, all I can say is this, if this is of God then nothing will stop it but if it is not of God then the darkness will be exposed and it will fall to the ground. I know the power and presence of God in my own life and Christ is my center.
Lord’s blessing to you all.
*he is not in it for the money*
*I pray god opens all you minds and hearts.*
It is your mind and heart that is not open Kim, you are blinded and deluded by the con games, trickery and heresy of Todd Bentley combined with trance inducing music, your endorphins, and crowd paranoia. You have never seen a true Biblical miracle at any of Todd Bentleys meetings because such Biblical miracles were only done in the time of Jesus and the apostles as signs of Jesus coming. Now we have the Bible finished and the true miracle is the gift of salvation and the preservation of His words through the Holy Bible alone.
You will never find true Biblical example miracles today, in our time God allows us to find healing through medicine, technology and nutrition, and learning wisdom of the natural healing process that God put into our bodies to begin with.
That is why nurse and doctor missionaries go around the world helping people just to survive with their pain because they know the facts and the differences between the Biblical level miracles and the medicine based natural types of miracles which are not the same.
If you think the truly blind and deaf and paraplegics instantly were healed and grew new limbs at Todd Bentley meetings like the specific miracle examples done in the Bible in Jesus time you are deluded, and if you dont believe me, try and take Todd Bentley to any place of Christian Blind missions, or Christian paraplegic missions, etc and you will see that after the hype wears off of Todds trickery, they are still the same physically, so it is for all the truly blind, maimed, etc. who come to Todds meetings that he doesnt even let up on the stage because he doesnt want his operation money suck exposed and his false gift exposed.
You are deluded Kim, one day if you ever wake up remember the warnings given to you and turn to the true gospel, the sound doctrines as recorded in the Holy Bible alone. Then go out and help all the true suffering Christians in the world, the ones you were once told before by Todd that they never had enough faith to be healed. Go and meet them Kim, believers suffering for decades praying every day yet not being healed like was done in Jesus ministry. It has nothing to do with their faith, it is because all people, Christian or not still live in this sinful world and the curse of sin is still upon us all until the new heavens and the new earth. Every one of us is dying as we speak in a body of sin and all the prayers of a lifetime by Todd Bentley wont save you or him from that.
Seek to help people find health (natural healing) through various methods that God has allowed us to learn of today through medicine, therapy, nutrition, technology, etc, but do not take advantage of the desperation of people and delude them into thinking Todd Bentley has any type of gift from God to heal in a truly Biblical type of manner, because he has no such gift, and not only that but he is leading others into false gospels and doctrines of devils.
Jonathan, you make some good points:
Number (4) in your list can be a sticky one. Why? Because that is one point which only God can determine. Even in a false move (or revival) there can be many commit themselves…but the question is, to “whom?’ If they are not hearing the word of God, we can’t really know, …you see?
Yes, i agree with you. I actually attended the Pensacola revival for 2 nights….it was in the early days of the revival, and can say at that time the word of God was being preached strongly under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. The spirit within the church was one of heart wrenching repentance.
What happened later…during the remaining years it went on, im not sure of, but from what i was told by those there, that spirit of humility and repentance left; That shouldn’t be surprising though—for many times the original work will be of God. But, there comes a day when God is finished, and man makes the mistake of going on anyway.
Its like a preacher who gets up to preach–The Holy Spirit will anoint him as he gives out the message God wants delivered. But instead of stopping at that point, he continues on in his own flesh for an additional 30 minutes. lol
I’ve seen this happen many times, and what can sadly occur is what God actually anointed, which the preacher gave out, gets forgotten by those listening.
one of the greatest accounts of true revival,,,,
Even in the great revivals of the past, at some point, the enemy always tried to enter in..If you’ve ever read War Against the Saints, (By Jesse Penn Lewis) you probably know that book was born out of what she witnessed, after the enemy tried to destroy what God had accomplished at the great Welsh revival.
PJ,
I totally agree with what you are saying. I like what Ravenhill says when it comes to revivals and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that there is the time to get in the river and a time to get and do what God would have you do. What I share is a synopsis of just a part of his teaching.
As to War on the Saints, I have the abridged version and it really balances out what is real and what is counterfeit. In the times in which we live there is no doubt that there are satanic influences at work but we must also recognize that God is always at work. It just a matter of having the discernment to know what is what!
To address what you said about adding souls to the Kingdom of God is an invitation by which man can choose to accept or reject. All I know according to scripture that the invitation is sent out to all. God had determined in eternity to send His only son to die for all mankind so that men and women would be faced with the choice of accepting Christ, living the life Christ intended one to live and be heaven bound or those who would reject Christ as the way, the truth, and the life, and be bound for a Christless eternity.
And you are right are they hearing the Word of God? Is there a deep Holy Spirit conviction in the hearts and minds of those present?
Anyway, keep up the good work.
** Amendment ~ I like what Ravenhill says when it comes to revivals and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that there is the time to get in the river and a time to get out and do what God would have you do.
Thanks Mary and anon for sharing your testimony´s.
I´d like to say to those of you who are hung up on “Todds” miracles, what if there were NO miracles happening, No one who got healed in Lakeland, would it then be considered a successful revival. I don’t think so! What would you then have? A lot of emotional expressions. A lot “I feel”
Take Healing out of the equation and it all boils down to a lot of stirred up emotions!
I felt led to share my experiences with Toronto & Brownsville and the fruit in my life this many years later.
Both Brwonsville and Toronto had a much different “feeling” to it. When I went to Brownville within about 1 hour of being there I was in a major feeling of repentance – a feeling of really getting right with God.
Toronto I have been to about 6 times in the past years, my last time being about 3 years ago. Toronto is a place where there is this feeling that comes upon you that draws you to the Fathers Love – cant explain it, but draws you closer to God.
In the atmosphere your giftings are turn up 10 fold. If you get revalations, you get them much stronger there. If you are gifted in prophacy it is much stronger there. Its actaully a bumber when someone gets up to preach, because in a way you are “with” God in such an intamate way, there is nothing better, especially someone getting up to preach.
All these years later, what is the fruit in my life? I have no doubt that it drew me closer to God, it stired a hunger in me for more of Him.. When I look at the fruit, what would the enemy desire that?
Now, did I see strange things? A few times, I saw a few people moving in the flesh, but that happens everwhere. I did see a few times where someone started to manifest demons in a serious way and saw some in the ministry team take the people aside can minister deliverance – nothing you don’t see Jesus do?
I have to say I question if this Florida thing is God, but when I see it online, I know that feeling, it’s a feeling of “EXPERIENCING” God, not LEARNING about Him, or getting another teaching ABOUT HIM, or Studing His words, but actually Experiencing Him.
When you see people on their face, they ARE repenting! When you see people raising their arms inlove with God they ARE repenting, When you see people losing themselves in Him, it is repentance (Change your mind, turn to him).
Again, as I mentioned, I am not sure yet about Florida, yet I believe that one needs to be very sure before juding it.. you may just find it is GOD and nothing worse then calling what is of God, from the devil.
Peace and Love
I just found this article by David Wilkerson titled, The Revival that has some very good points for all to read and remember.
“When the last great outpouring comes, it is prophesied to come “upon all flesh.” It will not be isolated in just a few areas. No one will be counting numbers. Hungry seekers will not be falling backwards — but frontwards, on their faces, humbled and broken. The preaching of the cross will be central. There will be no fundraising, no introducing of star visitors. The meetings will be times of wooing by the Holy Spirit, because He never drives people to altars — He woos them. No. one will have to defend such an outpouring. All manifestations will focus on Christ, not flesh. Weeping, brokenness, a lifting of holy hands in thankfulness for God’s mercy and grace will produce a true spirit of joy.”
I personally like his recommendation for revival too. Check it out.
HALLELUJAH! Amen Kurt….I agree 100%.
pj
curious…since this issue is rarely mentioned, so there is not a lot of data on it
WHERE does it say that the Holy spirit ONLY works in one direction? And that if someone falls the “wrong way” then it cannot be Him.?
How can people speculate about how which way someone falls really means anything at all?
Hi Marianne…
When Christians usually refer to true revival bringing forth this:
They are saying that true revival will “put christians on their faces” before our Holy God in humble repentance….nothing more.
one instance which came to me when reading your question, was the account of Jesus in the garden when they came to arrest him:
“… Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.” John 18:5,6
pj
supposed they are already saved, and are just rejoicing at his presence…does the direction of the fall really matter.
so the guards fell back.?..it seems like they would be the very ones to fall forward and repent…..
marianne
Marianne, i ‘think’ you’re misunderstanding me, lol!! If so im sure its my fault, im not very good at explaining things.
To be frank, if the Lord or a messenger from God appeared in front of me, i’d probably just fall in a heap! aha!!
Seriously though…when someone speaks of ‘falling on their face’ before God, they are thinking of humility and repentance.
When Wilkerson wrote:
He was saying in a true revival, when the people of God are truly seeking to be broken and are asking God to show them and remove, all hidden sins, agendas, etc etc..they won’t be asking for prayer, they will be on their faces before God in deep repentance.
I believe what you’re referring to is people being prayed for and falling back or forward unto the floor….am i right?
If so, i don’t believe there is any biblical requirement about falling either way! At least i’ve not read of any in the word.
I agree with Jonathan -
Jonathan, on May 10th, 2008 at 7:20 am Said:
When I consider the many moves or those that have been deemed as moves of God a couple of simple questions needed to be asked -
1. Does it glorify Christ?
2. Is the preaching Biblical?
3. Supernatural manifestations are always present in revivals but do they draw attention to the speaker or point toward Christ?
4. Are souls being added to the Kingdom of God?
I felt lead to share that we should be very careful not to be deceived and must take the armor of God. The Bible teaches us that we must see if it is scriptural based…and it doesn’t appear to be for me, along with the other people. The biggest for me was that there was no gospel being preached and those prayers and visions of angels - per the Bible don’t the angels announce their names, who sent them, and what is the message from God?
I am concerned that many may have been mislead after seeing and hearing that so many people attend Todd’s conference. For those truly seeking truth, truly loving the Lord Jesus, and God-fearing, we must really be careful and be concerned if there was no gospel of Jesus being preached and Jeus was not being glorified. Our Hope is in Jesus who is the savior of the world, who bridged the gap between God and man, and whose name we call upon that our prayers are answered.
Instead, there seems to be prayers referring to Angels (doing the work, etc.) or “angelic rhealm” rather than to call upon God and Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
Regarding Jonathan’s “…if souls were added to the Kingdom of God” - only God knows, however I think his point should seriously be taken as there seems to be no one repenting of his/her sins. There seems to be just a need for healing miracles and no conviction of sin needing God’s forgiveness and to turn their life to Christ.
I pray that what is not of God will be exposed and be gone so that no more people are mislead. If it is God’s then may people seek in deep relationship with Jesus and turn their lives around. I also pray that the Lord will reveal to us and also give us a heart of discernment for such false prophets that we too will not be mislead and sin against God. God, forgive all of us here, including me, for any wrong things being discussed and shared here. For we seek to find our God’s truth and we do not want anyone to be mislead away. Forgive us Father. Forgive me. In Jesus’ name, Amen.
pj
so this Wilkerson person is telling everyone which way to fall so it will be legitimate?
well,
if the Lord appears to me, I will not be concerned about which way he knocks me off my feet. I will just be happy he showed up. he might even leave me standing !!!!
marianne
No…he is speaking metaphorically Marianne
So Gary you say that god is not the same today as he was then. You are saying the miracles only happen in the time of Jesus. Doesn’t it say in the bible and this is Jesus speaking ” Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And theses signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” mark 16: 15-18. So tell me where it says it was only for that time, when the new testament is a guide line for us who believe in him. I am not the one who is blind and delude because I have been healed. You put God in a box. God can do anything and we have the same holy spirit as Jesus did when he walked the earth. You really need to study the bible some more and pray that god opens you eyes for a revelation of what God can do.
This article is long but well worth the read. Todd Bently is very much involved in the occult and mysticism. He teachings are NOT biblical. Please look into him and test the spirit as we are commanded to do.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Todd-Bentleys-Fire-of-Kundalini
Thanks for the link!
[...] not anyone I’d want to expose my children to. Even *I* wouldn’t want to go. Here’s some more info. Firsthand testimony from a Todd Bentley Fresh Fire Ministries Conference Sola Dei Gloria Todd Bentley prophesying and doing some bad cold reading End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, [...]
Dear Anon,
I am thankful you have shared your experience of this alleged “revival”. I believe God has blessed you by opening your eyes to the TRUTH.
God’s Word is the final authority.
Dear Mary,
Your testimony is just absolutely - AWESOME!! I give God praise for all He is doing and continues to do in your life. Your testimony totally glorifies our awesome God. I pray that many will read your testimony and be encouraged and edified by it. Such a blessing.
JESUS CHRIST must always be FIRST in our hearts and every area of our life.
Nothing else is to interfere with that relationship - not a man, not a book (excluding the Bible of course), not “revival”, not a programme, etc. but JESUS must always be FIRST.
If JESUS is your Lord and Saviour and you are a follower of JESUS then FOLLOW HIM and don’t follow men who are in deception and in error to God and His Holy Word.
STAND UP FOR JESUS - not for a man and his false teaching.
THE ONE WHO DIED ON THE CROSS FOR YOU is the One you must follow!
CAN YOU NOT TRUST THE ONE WHO DIED ON THE CROSS FOR YOU.
His Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of Truth will guide you into all truth. Read His Word, abide in Him and trust in Him alone. He will reveal the TRUTH to you.
We are all brothers and sisters in the Lord and I am praying that God will open the eyes of my siblings that they may see the TRUTH. I say this with love and much sorrow for those who are deceived. I do not want the enemy of our souls to deceive my siblings. I am on my knees in prayer for them and this includes Todd Bentley, etc.
I don’t think I am better than you, I am not, I too can fall into deception, so I pray that God will help me and I test everything by His Holy Word and whatever does not agree with God’s Word, I reject.
I was very deceived by the faith preachers years ago but I thank God that He opened my eyes and revealed the TRUTH to me.
We are in a battle brothers and sisters. We are in our Lord’s army and Jesus is our Captain let us take our orders from Him alone - read His Word and obey Him.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD.
May God bless and keep you all by His power.
Danni
Please explain this to me if God no longer heals.
http://rahabsplace.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/this-is-one-of-the-resurrections/
This is an Associated Press story, not from Todd Bentley. The accompanying email was sent to Pastor Strader prior to the news story breaking.
I don’t believe anyone here, besides Gary, questions whether God still heals, Rahab…I know i do believe He does, at his discretion.
The womans story is wonderful! It was not her time, and God showed that!
Isn’t it wonderful too, that this woman received this miracle straight from God—no meetings, no impartation’s…just her family praying.
God is awesome! When we trust Him, He gives us the revelation! I and my wifewent to Lakeland on May 19 2008. It was an awesome experience. We saw many healings, especially the people in wheel chairs. They left the wheel chairs when God touched them.
Todd Bentley is an awesome man of God!!!
I am so sick of hearing the “religious” spew their rhetoric when it doesn’t fit into their theology. Guess what? It didn’t fit into the Pharisees theology either. The church as a whole has been sick for a long time which why the world at the very mention of “christian” or “repentance” shut your conversations down cold. A Kingdom cannot be divided against itself. Satan cannot cast out Satan people. I have friends who went who were delivered of demonic spirits and physically healed IN the name of JESUS. The “religious” is why the world want nothing to do with church. I have read comments from people about all of the crying and falling backwards and how they don’t use Jesus’ name enough. First, my comment about the falling back in the spirit: My mom was slain in the spirit at a bible study. She was not a christian at the time. She met Jesus for the first time while slain in the spirit and now she is one of the great women of faith that I have a priveledge of knowing. But, guess what? I am more than sure you won’t find that TYPE of salvation happining in the scriptures because once again God does not fit into a theology box. Second comment: One comment I read above mentioned all of the “emotion” and “crying” that happens. Have you people never gone to the “secret place” with the Lord? That is all that happens alot of times when I am in His presence. It’s called deliverance and cleansing. My third comment: Tell me this, Do you find anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus talks about “saying a little prayer so that you can be saved” or telling the paralyctic man “you must first say a salvation prayer, then repent and then be baptized and THEN you will be saved. How about the woman at the well? How about Zaccheus? How about the woman caught in adultery? Jesus did things out of the norm. Jesus taught the Kingdom of God is at hand! Now if I ask most western christians WHERE is the Kingdom of God? Most would point up to the sky and say “there, in heaven”. But still, I know there are alot who would say “well it’s inside of us because of the Holy Spirit”. Both are correct. But still yet, the Kingdom of God (which is what Jesus spoke about mostly) is a “presence” that every believer has the priveledge of being a part of. When the Kingdom of God comes (presence) there are manifestations of the Kingdom breaking through from the spiritual to the natural. If the Kingdom is present then miracles WILL happen. If you and I carry this presence with us at all times(by basking in God’s presence) then we won’t need to “hurry up” and tell someone they must say the salvation prayer in order that they don’t go to hell. People will be drawn to the presence of God and want what we have(if indeed you have it). People are tired of religion. The world wants life and the only way that is possible is by us being alive in the spirit. Jesus himself said we would do greater things than He himself did. It’s so funny, when we actually see someone doing what Jesus said we could do he is mocked just as our savior was.. and by who else except the ones that look and sound just like the Pharisees? God is doing a new and refreshing thing. Religion is stale and old and it stinks. Jesus hated this very thing and is what he himself railed against. You can sit there and mock all day and tear down the man of God because he doesn’t fit in your mold. But I will chose to be a part of what God is doing. I believe He is waking the church up but unfortunately those with pride and the religious spirit who cannot see will remain asleep, old, and stale. You can argure your doctrine and theology all day but at the end of the day I have 5 friends who are living more productive lives because they no longer have pain and they can actually SHOW the power of God to the unbelieving world, not by their fancy wording but by testimony of what Jesus has done. Just a little side note: When David was being chased by King Saul because he wanted to MURDER him King David responded by saying “who am I to speak against the Lord’s annointed”? So, although I agree with being discerning I would caution any “christian” to speak against the Lord’s anointed or have you no fear of God? People are being healed and delivered in Jesus’ name and I would say it looks like the Kingdom of God is at hand. I will take it by force and I encourage you to do the same.
I’m not even going to try to comment on everything you wrote…shoo girl! What happened? Did you start to comment and get carried away? aha…just teasing…
one point though..
Praising the Lord if God healed your friends, but your disdain concerning doctrine is dangerous my friend. The Word of God is one sure unchangeable gift given to us…by which we (should) compare everything…it is the only true plumbline we have.
When we toss doctrine out the window and replace it with experiences, this is what eventually opens doors to false teachings, and heresy. The word of God is what keeps us balanced.
You obviously missed my point. I am not opposed to the word of God. I am only opposed to people using the word of God to tear down something that obviously has the spirit of God in it. If this were the enemie’s work then my friends would have not been healed nor come back MORE of fire for Jesus than they already were. The enemy would not give glory to Jesus for one second nor does he care about life…”the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy”. I have a friend who’s dad is a Lutheran minister. He is soo caught up on doctrine that he has missed what the Kingdom is really about. I remember one day she went to see her dad and her dad was trying to show her what theological book he was reading and debating her on it and she turned to him and said”dad, while you are sitting here reading about it we are actually DOING it.” The spirit of God is on the move preparing his church. My point about the doctrine is that the unbelieving world could care less. They want to see love in action. I wrote that my mom had been slain in the spirit and she was not a christian when she met the Lord for the first time. God himself did not say one thing about her sin or repentance or church. All she had was His presence and that is all she needed. In Lakeland that is what these people are experiencing. The presence of God is enough to change these people’s lives.
This is in response to what Gary said about God not performing miracles anymore:
He said:
“You will never find true Biblical example miracles today, in our time God allows us to find healing through medicine, technology and nutrition, and learning wisdom of the natural healing process that God put into our bodies to begin with.”
For the record, I do not believe what Todd Bentley is doing is of God.
However, God certainly does perform true healing and miracles today. My son was a corneal pregnancy and was scheduled to be aborted. VERY long story, but as I went in for my final ultrasound before the surgery, my son was moved to exactly where he was supposed to be in my uterus. I saw the before and after images of the ultrasounds. I was in horrible pain when I went in initially and all of my pain was taken away the morning I woke up before the last ultrasound. Medicine said to abort my baby. God said, NO!
Just because YOU have not experienced miralces and healing does not mean that God does not still choose to perform them. “With God ALL things are possible”.
We need discernment as most of the other posts have said, but we also need to keep our faith. We all seem to want to step out ahead of God. His Word has revealed more to me than any man. We just have to earnestly pray for clarity and seek His will in His Word.
I am disguisted at the critisism of revival going on. All you people trying to study it and say this is demonic??? Do you seriously believe the devil heals and brings 1000s into salvation and repentence. Come on. how mant people has your ministry brought into thekingdom in the past week. Todd is obeying god and going into all the world. How sad you believe in the devils power more than the holy spirit
Hi PJMiller,
Just a thought and please help me here but you said the following -
“When we toss doctrine out the window and replace it with experiences, this is what eventually opens doors to false teachings, and heresy. The word of God is what keeps us balanced.”
I have a question after reflecting through the Bible, preaching and teaching go hand in hand with experience. Jesus Christ not only preached and taught the disciples and the crowd but they themselves experienced God. You will find all the evidence in the Scripture.
Even throughout the Book of Acts you will find and see for yourself that the power of God was displayed in action and not just in word. Read Paul in 1 Cor. 2:1-5, 1 Cor. 4:20. I know that these are only a part of the much great part of Scripture.
Please, don’t misunderstand me but you are right when experience overtakes doctrine it is dangerous but we must understand that doctrine alone without experience is lack.
Keep up the good work,
Jonathan
I believe experience should be based on doctrine…
If you look at any of the cults, loosely based on Christianity, you’ll find everyone of them forsook the scriptures in one way or another: either by twisting them to mean something they were never intended to be, putting new spins on certain scriptures, or ignoring the word of God all-together.
I’m not saying experience isn’t important–it is. Its by going through experiences that we learn first hand, the deeper truths of many doctrines.
To really ‘know’ persecution one has to go through it….
To have a deep understanding of forgiveness, one may be placed in a hard situation in which they need to forgive…
on and on…
But having the personal experience of learning [about any] doctrine in this way, doesn’t take away from the written word [doctrine] or add to it…it was always there.
What becomes dangerous is when these people and/or groups come up with all these extra biblical experiences, which we can find no biblical basis for–or they add to an experience related in the Word, but go waaaay beyond what was written.
Take for instance Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS..
He claimed to have been visited by an Angel (Moroni) who led him to golden plates which contained God’s dealings with the former inhabitants of the American continent. After ‘translating’ them, (he said) whalla! we have the beginning of the Mormon Church.
Did an Angel by the name of Moroni appear to him? Should we believe the ‘experience’ of Smith?
Most if not all Christians today, would say no–we shouldn’t accept Smith’s experience. BUT they have no problem at all, apparently, accepting that another Angel, named Emma, or Wind of Change, has appeared to not just Todd Bentley but other of his associates, proclaiming a ‘third wave’.etc….
This is why, in my opinion the scriptures have to come first Jonathan.
It puzzles me why so many have been taken in by this guy: Todd Bentley Describes How He’s Possessed By A Demon, Loves Violence & Attends Roman Catholic Mass.
“Todd Friel listens to false teacher Todd Bentley describe how he’s possessed by a demon, loves violence & attends Roman Catholic Mass. Notice how people in the audience are laughing in hysterics when Todd Bentley talks about violently kicking people.
7 min.”
PJ,
Can I just say that you are so right about what you said, especially when folks have what is deemed extra-biblical experiences. I mean God is God and He is not just confined to the pages of Scripture. As we ‘know’ scripture reveals who God is, what He has done, what He will do and what He can do.
And like you said and I agree that to ‘know’ is to experience. For that particular word whether it is used in either the greek or the hebrew defines intimacy, a very close and personal contact at that. Help me out here did they have a doctrine of God in the Old Testament or the Knowledge of God in the OT or was it both. I think that we would agree that it would be both and like you said in your previous post that balance is required you cannot have one without the other.
Not only did Smith have angelic visitations but didn’t mohammed? By the way wasn’t the same angel that appeared to William Branham the one appeared to Todd B?
By the way we must remember Adam and Eve didn’t have scripture, neither did Enoch, Neither did Noah, Abraham and so on. Scripture only came about during the time of Moses so how does one equate to that in regards to that which has just been mentioned?
Thanks for the response,
Jonathan
I knew we agreed J…it was just my poor way of explaining…lol
yes, according to Todd and Bob Jones its the exact same one.
Here is one of Todd’s teachings on Angels…you may find it interesting!
Tracey, I’m sure you have a desire to know God and be used by Him. But please make sure that your zeal is grounded in Truth, as revealed in God’s Word.
As for your Mom’s experience ~~ “My mom was slain in the spirit at a bible study. She was not a christian at the time. She met Jesus for the first time while slain in the spirit and now she is one of the great women of faith that I have a priveledge of knowing.”
I worry that your Mom met an imposter while under the slain-in-spirit spell.
We come to know Jesus (and more importantly, to be known by Him) when we hear AND BELIEVE the Gospel, which is that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again from the dead according to Scripture. It is at the moment we believe that we are sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 1:13:
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,…”
1 Cor 15:1-4:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,…”
A couple general concerns about Todd Bentley~~
Not only does Todd NOT preach from the Word, but he doesn’t even appear to *have* a Bible on the pulpit during his shows. If this is a supposed revival and he doesn’t preach from the Word, then what is being revived?
Also, the pastor reports from Ignited Church show the true colors of this ministry. Here are just a few excerpts from the report on the May 21st mtg at this URL: http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=RB007ENN&GroupID=CT01ZQZ1
“The Lakeland Revival is the number 8 most watched video in the world on U-Tube… …
Instead of being worried about whether this is of God… why not pray that this IS GOD!!!
Let’s just go for it!!!”
And then later in the report Todd says:
“My ministry began by my personal DESIRE for the SAME anointing as Jesus… to have the power of God…”
And finally ~~ he talks an awful lot about God’s glory and being in the glory realm and calling down the glory. But Isaiah 42:8 says “I am the LORD, that is My Name; I will not give my glory to another, Nor my praise to graven images.”
It is not God Who gives us His Glory, but we who give God glory: “Let them glory to the LORD and declare His praise in the coastlands.” Isaiah 42:12
Brenda,
I have one question regarding your statement towards Tracy’s mom - The Apostle Paul or Saul as he was known at the time before his conversion did he ever hear the gospel when he encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1-19)?
You may want to read Gal. 1:11-18 regarding Paul’s encounter and how he gives defense of it.
In addition to this, let us not be quick judge someone’s conversion so quickly, for the Word of God says you will know them by their fruits and that we are to bear fruit worthy of repentance. So let us not play God in reserving the right about who is converted and who is not converted. For that Judgement alone is God’s alone.
By the way, God can do whatever He chooses to do. I mean didn’t a donkey speak, didn’t He part the Red Sea, didn’t He send His only begotten Son to die for the sins of mankind so that we could be free from the burden and slavery of sin as well as restore us back to the our Heavenly Father. He did the unthinkable, He did and does what is contrary to popular belief, He does what He does because He is God!
I am not defending Tracy but what I am doing is pointing out the fact don’t be quick to judge someone else salvation experience based on your own understanding.
Blessings,
Jonathan
Can I say, I have seen many people grow in their love for the word of God, desire an intamacy with God that they have never before had, excited about what God is doing, all after watching several meetings from Florida on God TV. I’m sorry but when I hear people running down Todd Bentley and not exalting Jesus - that worries me. You focus to much on Todd that you are missing what God is doing. John & Carol Arnott, Che Ahn, and several other well known and devoted servants of Jesus have attended the meetings sitting on the stage with Todd. The devil is at work here I agree, he has you all so caught up looking for him that you are missing Jesus. People are being saved, healed, delivered, and are hungry for God in their lives, the honour and glory is going to Jesus, His word is being preached, praise God for what He is doing and pray for all those people who have been healed and who now believe in their hearts that Jesus is Lord.
I found this site through search for Todd Bentley.
Have any of you seen the DVD by Louie Gigglio?
After you see that you will realize how BIG the Creator of Everything is.
You will then understand how HE is involved in every detail of our lives. And He is a what I call Our Super Natural Creator. He speaks and it is done.
I do feel very sorry for those who are in bondage to a very small god who can expect very little from him, while they feel so Good about themselves for their humble pie works.
We are FREE in Jesus Christ, because of HIS GREAT WORK.
He is above and beyond all that we could ask or think.
I have pictures of what I call a Cloud Angel and a Super Natural True Story on my web site.
Hi Jonathan,
I would never presume to judge someone’s eternal standing before God. I just want Tracey to make sure that her Mom heard and believed the Gospel message as it’s clearly revealed in the Bible. (1 Cor 15:1-4) I question whether Tracey’s Mom heard that message while she was slain in the spirit. If she did, great. If not, ok, hear and believe it now.
Personally, I think Saul was converted (ie, he finally recognized Jesus as the Messiah) **before** the Lord revealed the Gospel to him, which then he was instructed to preach.
Anyway, I apologize to Tracey and anyone else who I gave the impression that I was judging someone’s eternal standing before God. No way, I wouldn’t dare. But I do just want folks to understand that you are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel message. Eph 1:13 and 1 Cor 15:1-4
God Bless you all. And thanks for the ques so I had a chance to better explain myself. (: -Brenda
Can any of you people who think Todd Bentley is this great man of God, tell me do you really think the Holy Spirit would instruct one of His ministers to kick old ladies in the face, knee people in the stomach or knee drop a pastor. WAKE UP. How can you justify this as of God. Please I would really like an answer and dont give me that dont put God in a box stuff either. Where is the fruit of the Holy Spirit Gal 5:22 especially the gift of gentleness and self control. Read this over and over ask the Lord to show you .Math 12:39 Study it please.Do not call your brothers and sisters in Christ closeminded and “religious” they are concerned about your spiritual welfare. I am praying for Todd, but I have studied the scriptures and some of the stuff he is in to does not line up with the Word. Lets all pray for Todd and his family he is our brother and we need to intercede for him.
Love in Christ
Col 3:12
Why is it that the church has such a hard time with angels? Why are people offended at Todd Bentley seeing angels, but not offended when they read such scriptures as:
• Two angels visited Lot and spent the night at his house (Gen. 19:1)
• Jacob had a vision of a ladder and the angles of God ascending and descending (Gen 28:12)
• An angel appeared to Gideon in the winepress (Judg. 6:11)
• God appeared to Moses in the burning bush (Ex. 3:2)
• Gehazi had his spiritual eyes opened to see angles and chariots (2Kin. 6:16, 17)
• Daniel’s visions (Dan7:1-12; 8:1-14); Gabriel appears to him (Dan 9:21)
• Peter fell into a trance (Acts 10:9-23)
• John had many visions recorded in the book of revelation when he was taken into the Spirit on the Lord’s day (Rev. 1:12-1
• Mary and Joseph were directed by angels who appeared to them in dreams (Matt 1:20,21; Matt. 2:13).
There are so many more examples. In Matt. 6 Jesus talks about how children have angels assigned to them that report to the Father in heaven (Mat. 18:10). Luke 4:10 says, “He shall give His angels charge over you.” Even Jesus had angels that attended to Him and strengthened Him (Mark 1:13, Luke 22:43).
The bible is full of angels and dripping with supernatural experiences. Todd says that when he read these things in the bible he said that he told the Lord “I have faith for this in my life. Lord send these things to my life.” God did send those things to his life. Why do we not have those things in our lives? “You have not, because you ask not (James 4:2).” Todd does not elevate angels in an unbiblical way he just acknowledges that they do the work of God, and he asks God to send then into his life. Hebrew 1:14 says, “They (Angels) are ministering spirits sent to do His word.”
I honestly fear for those leaders who sow fear and faithlessness into the hearts of their followers. To blaspheme a move of the Holy Spirit is not to be taken lightly. Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice”. My advice to any doubters is to go to Lakeland and see if the voice and presence of your master is there. If you have not been there and you have not watched the meetings on TV and you are just looking at criticisms that have been posted here and there you aren’t going to find God in it because you truly haven’t sought Him. You also have no right to criticize or lead others astray. I have been there and the presence of the Lord was so heavy and glorious. I consider myself a sheep who knows His voice and His presence. He was there. I have been to towns that operate heavily in witchcraft and the occult. The atmosphere is oppressive and dark. I have even left hotels early, because I can sence what is going on in the spirit realm and it is uncomfortable. If the devil had been in Lakeland, I would have known it, because I know my Father.
Also, we need to look at the fruit. Are people coming to the Lord Jesus? Yes. Absolutely. Many people are saved every night. Not just a few. I have heard in the thousands sometimes. I have seen alter calls where hundreds of people have gone up. Also God TV gets many letters and phone calls from those being saved via the TV. I know that many letters are received via email from those who watch on the internet and get saved as well.