Is there a difference? Reading around on many websites, apologetic ministries, etc I have always had the impression that most people today believe they are one and the same. They are not. Perhaps it depends on where you live, how long you’ve been serving the Lord, or just your general church background; but I can tell you they are quite different in many ways. You could call me a pentecostal–in the sense of what that term means in the Churches found in the mid-west and the south-east. I believe in all the gifts of the Spirit being for today and for the Church, and I believe strongly in living by the Word of God: knowing that the gifts without the word will lead to fanaticism. I also believe in sanctification and holiness unto the Lord.
I came upon a little chart which points out the differences between Pentecostals and Charismatics; and there is a big difference. In my honest opinion, Charismatics or the movement itself, is a perversion of true Pentecostalism. They took from the Pentecostal teachings what they wanted, but turned it into something totally different. What we see today is not “Pentecostal”. I’m referring to the false signs and wonders movements, the false revivals, and the many ministries based on Prophets, seers and mystics. True Pentecostal believers have a love and very high esteem for the written word of God. In the many pentecostal churches I have attended and belonged to there was always a healthy balance between God’s word and the gifts of the Spirit. People were healed, and words were given, but they were never the primary focus of the Church. Christ was. As were the teachings and sermons delivered from the pulpit.
I guess I’m writing this in hope that people will not confuse Pentecostals with what is known as the Charismatic movement today. Notice the differences in this chart:
Chart: Pentecostals And Charismatics: What’s The Difference?
"If the professed convert distinctly and deliberately declares that he knows the Lord's will but does not mean to attend to it, you are not to pamper his presumption, but it is your duty to assure him that he is not saved. Do not suppose that the Gospel is magnified or God glorified by going to the worldlings and telling them that they may be saved at this moment by simply accepting Christ as their Savior, while they are wedded to their idols, and their hearts are still in love with sin. If I do so I tell them a lie, pervert the Gospel , insult Christ, and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness."
I am Pentecostal…..pleas read below…
http://yeshuasmidnightwatchman.blogspot.com/search/label/Pentecostal.
Sorry so long, but it explains what and who we are.
Taken from raptureready.com
A Balanced Approach to Pentecostalism
by Andy Terry
Pentecostals have hoed a row that’s been littered with alienation, misunderstanding, excess, heresy, scandal, self-inflicted wounds and bad press. Yet somehow, that old ship that set sail from the mountains of Carolina/Tennessee, picking up passengers at Azusa Street still sails on. Today, Pentecostals may be found on all of the populated continents of the earth and given time, will likely take root in Antarctica. How do those rugged people do it? Pure Pentecostalism, I believe, exists within the community of orthodoxy ( Non-Trinitarians not withstanding) but using a phrase like “pure Pentecostalism” can be likened to holding onto a fist-full of wind. Pentecostal congregations are a diverse lot, even within their own Denomination. Churches within the Assemblies of God are a prime example of this (Due to their congregational autonomy). Where some are solidly biblical in both theology and approach, others turn on a dime to chase every, and any doctrinal tumbleweed that blows through town.
To synthesize this balanced approach, we will have to define first, our terms in the strictest sense, and hold their outworking to the plumb line of Scripture. This is perhaps one of the most beautiful benefits of scripture; not only does it provide a clear demarcation between truth and error, it provides a level surface on which to build. If the house is built on the solid, immobile foundation of the word, it will stand up to time and tide. In other words, we won’t have to continually revisit and retool to suit the whims of successive generations. My intent is to supply more than just a list of “grievances”. Solutions and suggestions are provided along with a roadmap on reaching those solutions.
“What is a Pentecostal?” Simply stated, a Pentecostal is one who believes that the Holy Spirit of God continues to move as He did in the Apostolic Church. The Pentecostal looks to the empowerment of the Holy Spirit to live a life that’s God-pleasing and purpose fulfilling. Within the Pentecostal zeitgeist, the gifts received on that 50th day following Christ’s resurrection remain with the Body of Christ until He returns for His bride. This again, is a “nutshell” definition. The degree of separation between pentecostals and nonpentecostals is much narrower than both persuasions would realize, boiling down to a debate over just which gifts of the Spirit have ceased to operate, and how the Spirit fills and empowers the Follower of Jesus. Within the Pentecostal view however, there are some very serious watershed division that literally determine the difference between orthodoxy and heterodoxy. “Oneness Pentecostalism” is a dire departure from historic Christian orthodoxy in its refutation of the tri-unity of the Godhead. This school shouldn’t be included under the pale of orthodoxy, regardless of whatever PR spin they apply to their public image. Their sheer numbers, combined with their simpaticos on the Trinity Broadcasting Network would give the impression that their doctrinal errors have been mitigated and that they’ve been given full acceptance. Unfortunately for historic Pentecostalism, this paints an inaccurate image, one that portrays pentecostals as a group that plays fast and loose with theology and doctrine.
“ Problematic Pentecostalism.” The previous statement ( fast and loose) hits home far too often, and far too close for comfort. Generally speaking, pentecostals have often been hoisted on their own petards over issues that would have been avoided if the saint had simply exercised Christian discernment. I wish to stress that I’m speaking in generalities, addressing Pentecostalism as a whole.
The substitution of experience for sound doctrine is perhaps the greatest problem that faces today’s Pentecostal churches. Sound biblical doctrine is treated at best as a “necessary evil”, or its simply ignored out of hand. This problem is exacerbated by two factors, inadequate theological/doctrinal depth within members of the Pentecostal clergy/laity, and a prevailing disdain for serious study. These factors create a self-perpetuating spiral of spiritual ignorance that opens the door for grave spiritual error and apostasy. The results of this doctrinal shallowness ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous but since we (believers in Christ Jesus) are all de facto spokesmen for the historic faith and the Kingdom of God, there’s nothing funny about the situation.
This doctrinal shallowness allows folk to accept the toxic teaching propagated by the likes of Hinn, Hickey and Copeland without an iota of critical examination. A legion of pentecostals sit like bobble-head dolls, nodding with approval any time these contemporary Gnostics open their mouths, and their teaching then propagates like a computer virus as well-meaning Sunday school teachers and pastors ape the message to waiting ears. Shallowness also allows what I’ve defined as 1“Mountain folk religion” to wend its way into the Pentecostal zeitgeist, destroying any and all credibility as apologists.
Consider the results of doctrinal shallowness carried to its ultimate end. Oneness Pentecostalism essentially sprung from a prophecy delivered at a camp meeting early in the last century. Had there been enough “Bereans” in attendance that prophecy would have been weighed in the balance of scripture and it would have been judged as a false prophecy and the error wouldn’t have seen the light of day. Then there’s the case of Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple. His pronouncements from the pulpit were accepted out of hand and we saw with horrible clarity, the results on our TV’s.
“Over the Top Arminianism.” I’m not picking a Calvinist fight with my Arminian brothers! My personal theology is a synthesis formed between the poles of these two theological worldviews and frankly, I’ve found problematic issues in both as they’re taken to their extremes. There seems to be a phobia among pentecostals that has many believing that they’re no more than a heartbeat away from loosing their salvation and being dispatched onto the HOV lane to perdition. I’ve witnessed both cases of folk “getting saved” every Sunday, and individuals receiving multiple baptisms over a two-year period. Personally, I see this as a process that cheapens both the gift of salvation and the sacrament of Baptism. In every case where I took the time to pray with the penitent, that individual simply needed to confess a sin before God and accept the grace of His forgiveness.
This mindset prevents believers from venturing a few steps away from the altar of repentance and duct tapes them into a spiritual bassinet. Have you ever wondered just how we can have folk in our churches who’ve been saved for decades yet remain “Babes in Christ”? It’s because they’re trapped in this mindset and until they embrace the liberty of the believer, they’ll not mature beyond the sinner’s prayer.
“ Towards Biblically-Balanced Pentecostalism.” There’s no “hidden revelation” or inside trick to curing these aliments that seek to undermine the Pentecostal worldview. My thesis is based on no other revelation than the revealed canon of Scripture. The prescription is a matter of public record and may be found within the pages of God’s word. This isn’t esoteric inside information that’s only available to the super saint; any believer can read, absorb and model this behavior.
Luke spoke of the Bereans in Acts Chapter 17:
“And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These The Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so”( Acts 17:10-11 KJV).
Dwight L. Moody coined the phrase, “ The straight stick of scripture”, which conveyed the idea that pronouncements should be held to the standard of the Bible for accuracy and clarity. Our understanding of the world may change from generation to generation. Conventional wisdom ( or pop-ignorance) too has its own unique generational perspective. Holy Scripture is eternal and unchanging. Rooted in eternity past and projecting into eternity future, it is unchanging and unyielding to generational fickleness. What light does Scripture shed on the Pentecostal experience, or Spiritual Gifts? How are these gifts seen in operation, or dispensation? These, and other questions are answered clearly by St. Paul in his epistles, and by St. Peter in his dissertations in Acts.
“The Divine Purpose seen in Perpetuity.” The purpose of Pentecost often seems lost on many who would call themselves Pentecostal. For some, it’s a mere rush; much like a thrill ride. Altar-centered activity becomes their measure for the move of God in a service and the decibels equate to anointing. You can witness this though the comments of these folk.
Consider a worship service where a sense of reverence has permeated the venue. The speaker’s message has resonated deep within the hearts of hearers and a sense of conviction is now welling towards the surface. As the service is closing, many throughout pray earnestly, seeking for the grace and strength to move closer to the heart of God. Many who are outside of the family of the forgiven repent and seek our Lord’s gift of salvation. In the end, hearts are steeled, souls are strengthened and silent tears may even be shed. The gifts of the Spirit were operating with power in this scenario as evidenced by the clear, powerful proclamation of God’s word. Yet because no “message” was delivered and interpreted, no one “ran the aisles” or “fell under the power”, the majority of Thrill Riders would have dismissed that service as being dead! Ironically, the description above could be applied not only to Peter’s sermon on the day of Pentecost, but to the entire program of apostolic preaching.
For others still, the purpose of Pentecost has been reduced to a mere “fix”. These are the individuals who will cross a continent to see the latest curious manifestation to roll onto the Pentecostal or Charismatic stage. Chances are, you may know folk who’ll trek hours to see a revivalist from Paul Crouch’s TBN lineup in some regional venue. Or, you may know of individuals who’ve made the pilgrimage to Toronto or Brownsville to “see” the purported revivals that took place in those locales.
Both of these take the Pentecostal experience and the move of the Spirit, and reduce them to the level of a day at the amusement park, or a peek at a train wreck! The Holy Spirit of our God hasn’t been given as an entertainment outlet or to be a means of wringing adrenaline from our pancreas. So what then, is the purpose of the Gifts of the Spirit and the objective of the Pentecostal experience?
“Purposes Revealed.” The arrival of the Spirit and the spiritual gifts, along with the objectives of the Pentecostal experience are intrinsically related and essentially can’t be separated. Jesus spoke clearly of the coming Spirit and His mission in John 16. At it’s essential core, the mission of the Holy Spirit is to draw all humanity into a relationship with their creator. Amplified, that mission includes convicting us of our abject spiritual poverty and moral bankruptcy, and convincing us of our absolute need for a savior who offers divine forgiveness and perfect love. Looking further, the Spirit comforts the repentant heart and breathes grace and assurance of Divine forgiveness. Yet in the midst of comfort, that same Spirit may also act as a sharp stick, scolding and admonishing us. I’m thoroughly convinced that when we hear our consciences speaking to our centers, it’s a result of being goaded by the Spirit.
The essential core of the Pentecostal experience is equally clear. Essentially, the objective of this experience is to empower us to be bearers of the Gospel and participants in the Holy Spirit’s mission in the physical universe.
St. Peter is the supreme example of this statement. Consider Peter; brash, impulsive, and rushing in where angels fear to tread. When the iron was on the anvil, he disavowed his associations with the Christ, and cursed those who insinuated the contrary. Yet when this Galilean everyman received the baptism of the Holy Spirit on that day of Pentecost, he was filled with a new-found power that allowed him to become a channel of God’s grace, mercy and peace. Stained-glass hagiography aside, Peter was a “Regular Guy” with the full compliment of normal hopes, dreams, desires and passions. His living legacies may be found seated in any pew of any church the world over. We all know “Peter’s”; those plain-spoken men who work hard, honest days with their calloused hands. We’ve seen these same men manifest the love of Christ to those in their worlds. As was the case of Peter, this empowerment is clearly the result of the Holy Spirit operating in the lives of these men (and women).
“The Promise and the indwelling presence.” The debate continues within orthodox, evangelical circles as to the validity of the contemporary Pentecostal experience. Positions and passions are varied but for a Biblio-historic view, let’s consider the following passages from St. Luke’s Acts of the Apostles.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and all who are far off – for All whom our Lord will call.” Acts 2:38-39 (NIV)
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and Arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them “Did you Receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” Acts 19:1-2 (NIV)
Receiving the “Gift of the Spirit”, according to Luke’s account in Acts would appear to be normative by the account of Luke. In 2:38, Peter makes the clear, declarative statement that all who repent of their sins and call on the name of the Christ for forgiveness will receive that Gift of the Spirit. He further implies that the promise is open-ended, crossing generational, ethnic and chronological barriers.
We find ourselves thrust some 15 years into the future with Acts 19:1-2, where Apollos asks believers in Corinth if they’d received the Holy Spirit. A continued reading reveals that they weren’t familiar with the gift but when they availed themselves, the gift was received. “Cessation or Perpetuity?” This is the point of debate between pentecostals and nonpentecostals; do the “Gift of the Spirit” and the accompanying Spiritual Gifts exist in perpetuity, or did they cease at the closure of the apostolic age? Sincere, orthodox children of God exist on both sides of the debate and I would be both arrogant and wrong to use this question as a litmus test of one’s faith in God. Unfortunately though, there are those in both camps that sling arrows and accusations at the other, keeping phrases like “Apostate”, or “Blasphemer of the Holy Ghost” in their quivers. This behavior only alienates and destroys. “ Questions for the Cessationist.” We need to establish the fact that there are several “Gifts of the Spirit”.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Cor. 12:7-11 (NKJV)
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Rom. 12:6-8 (NKJV)
Often, both sides seem to loose touch of the fact that Tongues, Interpretations and Prophecies aren’t the sole Gifts of the Spirit. A reading of I Corinthians 12:8-10 lists a multitude of gifts: Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Miraculous Powers, Healing, Prophecy, the Discerning of Spirits, Tongues and the Interpretation of Tongues. We see this list amplified and expanded in Romans 12:6-8, where we see: Prophecy, Service, Teaching, Encouragement (or Exhortation), Leadership, Giving, and Mercy. If we’re to say that the “Gifts of the Spirit” ceased at the close of the apostolic age, how do we reconcile the fact that the many or most of these gifts are operating within healthy, Biblio-centric churches? Too, what church could ever expect to be salt and light in their community without the presence of these gifts in their midst?
“The Prescription for Balance.” The Pentecostal experience MUST exist under the bright light of God’s word if it’s to remain biblio-centric and relevant to the move of God! The extrabiblical forays into frothy-mouthed kookiness and fanaticism have not only hijacked the Pentecostal worldview, but have deprived the bulk of the church of a major source of blessing as well. There is a struggle for the soul of the Pentecostal worldview, and its outcome will guide the future of Pentecostal groups and opinions. If biblio-centricity is lost, these groups will be at best, marginalized to the point total insignificance and at worst, become a bulwark of apostate zeitgeist. The outcome rests in the hands of those who’d call themselves Pentecostal. “ Against the plumb line of Scripture.” Scripture sets the precedent and provides the instructions for operation of Gifts of the Spirit and as the case of any doctrine or teaching of Scripture, it’s non-negotiable; we tinker with them at our own spiritual peril.
A clearer understanding is especially needed in the area of what some will refer to as “sign” gifts. A “Message in Tongues” is not a communiqué from God through the Spirit ( or Mary, in the case of some Charismatic Catholics). Simply put, its quite the opposite. According to I Corinthians 14, one who is speaking in tongues is communicating with the Lord, not channeling for Him. Typically, this error occurs when one assumes to have received the Gift of Interpretations. The “message” will typically be one of where the Lord places His “Good Cosmoskeeping Seal” on the worship service, or one that stirs up the congregation. Typically too, this is the result of doctrinal ignorance but sometimes, those wanting to stir up a service that’s perceived as being dead purposefully do it. This is disingenuous and just plain wrong! “Manifestations” are another area that demands examination. By manifestations, I’m speaking of those things that are rife within Pentecostal circles and range from the sublime to the ridiculous. They range from extra-biblical at best, to downright unscriptural at their worst. Pentecostals must stop excusing bizarre, disorderly conduct the like of that seen in Toronto. The God who created the cosmos at the sub-atomic level is a God of propriety and good order, not a Lord of bedlam and chaos. When someone starts shouting in the middle of a speaker’s message, the only thing being manifested is spiritual ignorance or just plain bad manners. Consider for a moment… When the pastor or teacher is delivering a sermon, a bona fide gift of the Spirit is in Operation and saints are being encouraged and equipped. Should we expect an orderly God to randomly manifest his presence in a way that degrades this equipping process? “But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way” I Cor. 14:40 (NIV)
Gifts are for service, and must be sought after. Each Spiritual Gift serves to build and strengthen the church, both on a local and universal level. Unfortunately though, a majority who claim to be spirit-filled can’t tell you what gift or gifts they’re received. Oh sure, at one point in their lives, they may have spoken in other tongues at the altar, but that’s the end of their story. If we’re to believe that tongues are the initial evidence of the Spirit’s indwelling ( A point that’s also wide open for debate), we should reasonably expect secondary and subsequent evidence of some other form of gifting. We do no service for the kingdom by simply reveling in an experience we may have had decades ago. Rather, we should seek out the gifts (and avenues) or service that we might be a greater blessing to the world around us.
Conclusions A biblically synthesized approach to the Pentecostal experience will not only place the church on a sound doctrinal footing, it will also invigorate the ministry of God’s Church on Planet Earth! I challenge anyone who’d call themselves Pentecostal or Charismatic to consider this, repent of error or ignorance, then avail themselves to the working of God’s Holy Spirit in their everyday lives. I also challenge any non-pentecostal believer to look beyond the what is being foisted off on the church as a move of God, and consider for a moment that our Lord still gifts and equips his faithful children. Tarnished, old silverware is anything but attractive. Yet with silver polish and loving labor, the old silver pieces are returned to their original luster. With God’s word, the tarnish of misunderstanding, ignorance or outright hucksterism can be removed from the Pentecostal experience, revealing the beautiful gift our God gave His church.
End Notes
1. “Mountain folk religion” An entire article could be devoted to this subject but for the purposes of brevity and clarity, I’ll provide a concise definition. Essentially, this is a belief system that’s a sticky mélange of Christian terminology, false/erroneous doctrines and spiritism. The phenomenon has far more to do with North American neo-animist superstition than historical Christianity. Look for an article on this in the future.
Holly
Holly thanks for replying and the post you included…
I read through it quickly, but want to read it over again before commenting…and i do want to comment because i saw a few things i didn’t agree with the author on. lol
Pentecostals have taken a bad rap for what a few fanatical fringe groups have done over the years–thats my thoughts anyway.
What always interests me is those who usually critique it, by writing articles/books etc. on pentecostal beliefs and worship, are not Pentecostals themselves, and have no first hand knowledge of them. Have you ever noticed that yourself?
Anyway, Lord willing i’ll go over this again tomorrow and may have a few words to add…
God bless you sister!
PLEASE comment! I have been Pentecostal my entire life…as described in the article you posted. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit along with being hedged in the Word. This is must have conversation between Pentecostals. Many of us are removing ourselves from the denomination because of the confusion between true Pentecostals and charismatics. People fear the Lord and want to do right by the word. But, they leave behind the girfts of the Spirit (which empower the church for the glory of God) and mute their worship life.
And I have noticed that most people who write about Pentecostals are not….funny!
The article that I posted was written by a Pentecostal if memory serves me correctly. I am going to go back and reread it too.
Shalom!
Holly
Yes i agree Holly, there is a lot of confusion concerning the difference between Pentecostals and Charismatics. Many of the articles i’ve read over the years by those who speak out on the excesses like signs and wonders, healings, etc and their dangers, always seem to clump the two together as ‘one’…believing they are the same. Did you get a chance to look at that little chart i gave the link to? I thought it was pretty good in showing the main differences between the two.
No they are not–in fact they are offensive to those who know the gifts are for believers today!
I found it over at RR soapbox this morning–the author doesn’t really say, but i think you may be right [after i re-read it] it appears they have an understanding of the topic from being ‘inside’ rather then talking about it from just hear-say .
I liked this..
Amen…the old ship does indeed sail on! and aren’t we glad?!
I agree. I also think historic pentecostalism teaches that the much forgotten doctrines of sanctification and holiness are still important. I know in the churches i’ve attended these teachings are included–as well as the cross, the blood of Christ, [which many churches find offensive today] etc…
Agree..and i believe many outside of pentecostal churches do not understand this.
This was what caught my eye last night…see i didn’t agree with that. The pentecostal churches i’ve attended over the last 28 years, depend more on the word then the gifts. Like i said in the original post though, it may depend on where someone lives, as to their experience with the PC. The best most powerful sermons i’ve heard have come from spirit filled pentecostal preachers! Those i have met through the years–preachers and members, know the scriptures, and rely heavily upon the written word.
To me, the gifts operate more ‘purely’ when the word of God is honored.
Again i’ve not seen this at all. While its true that many pentecostal pastors or preachers never attended a bible seminary, its not kept the ones i’ve known from deep study in the word–or from receiving knowledge on the scriptures.
My first pastor was the best bible teacher i have ever sat under–we had an adult bible study every week and the things i learned from him, are things i go back to looking at still today. I’ve yet to come across anyone who had a grasp on the study of types and shadows in the old testament , like Brother Trent.
I think many non pentecostals believe those who attend pentecostal churches are ignorant and un-studied in the word of God, which is not so…Charismatics on the other hand, are more into experience without the word being primary in their services (i briefly attended a charismatic church years ago)
Excuuuuse me! ahahaha…. My pentecostal friends are neither bobble-head dolls nor do they give any credibility to the likes of Hinn or Copeland! See, this is where i think this author is himself, confusing Charismatics with Historic Pentecostals.
And what does he mean “Mountain folk religion”?
My family is from the hills of Kentucky…and many of them still live there. While many ‘mountain folk’ have a simple faith, its not in error. They love Jesus, read and study their bibles like anyone living in New York or elsewhere. The one thing many of them lack is all the confusion many of us more ‘learned’ folks have. And that isn’t necessarily bad…
Once again, i’ve not seen this mind set within my friends. Now im not saying its not in some churches/congregations, it probably is. But im sure its just as much in many Baptist hearts as well. I think the reason this author may believe this is because most pentecostal churches teach the truth; which is we must continue to abide in Christ. They don’t teach OSAS, regardless of how a christian lives after being born again. They teach continuous repentance. In other words we just don’t repent of sin once–but we repent, asking forgiveness whenever we knowingly sin.
I agree with the author..
The Charismatic zaniness of all experience and no word, could cause historic pentecostalism to be looked at as apostasy.
Paul warned in 2Timothy;
“having a form of Godliness but denying the power…” Yes, that is the danger today caused by the outlandish displays and extra-biblical movements we’re witnessing; (like we’re seeing now at Lakeland) The wrong emphasis on signs, wonders, and healings could back-fire, causing many to turn away [for good] from the real and true supernatural workings of God. Those who do this would be fulfilling what Paul spoke of—they would be people only having the ‘form’ without the power.
Thanks again Holly for the reply!
No problem! Great write up. I agree with you. If I wrote anything it would just be reiterating what you said so I will save you the posting space!
Shalom from a Georgia Based Pentecostal who loves the Lord in Spirit and Truth!
Holly
Maybe there was a difference between pentecostalism and charismaticism in America, but here in my country, at least in the early ’80′s when i was devastated by it, there was none discernable.
I went through the whole blasphemous and meaningless palaver of being “slain in the Spirit” and having intergenerational curses broken, at the hands of pentecostals. and the insistence that I or any other had to praise God whether we felt like it or not drove me to madness and despair. I got it from a pentecostal church, my local New Life Church.
I also believe in the gifts of the Spirit for today, being holy, etc etc. But these are ideals. When the carnal mind seizes on these things madness is all topo often the result.
The manifest and practical reality is that savage cruelty of those infatuated by real; or imagined supernatural experience who think that the blessing has to be kept by legalist effort
None of this will be admited, of course, but the compulsive legalism is buried deep and shows in our fruit
Very thought provoking post there. Thank you for highlighting very pertinent issues. I have always been proud to call my self charismatic in private but in public i prefer being called an evangelical christian. It just seems each time a the word “pentecostal” or “charismatic” is mentioned every one even the strongest of believers wants to run for the hills. The unbridled excesses of prosperity gospel in this time and age have bordered coveteousness and flirted with greed. Healing ministries have turned into institutions causing grievious bodily harm and profaned a once gracious gift and brought much disdain to the name of the Lord. Its with great sadness that i say this but i hope we charismatics are not delving into a different gospel. We have faith in faith rather than faith in Gods word…we name and claim…loose and bind but rarely inquire of the Lord first if it be his will. We are sripturally illiterate. Yet do not acknowlege our need; as the zeal for our fathers “earthly blessings” has consumed us.I use the pronoun “we” with great humility.My frustrations are well chronicled in my blog. Feel free to cast a stone or write in the sand.
As a Pentecostal, believe me, i know.
You’re right–the false doctrines and teachers, which always seem to be the only “public faces” anyone knows, have damaged the reputation of true spirit filled believers.
I loved this post. I didn’t grow up in church and got saved at a local Church of Christ. When the Holy Spirit got ahold of me I learnt by experience that the gifts are for today. I never considered myself charismatic or Pentecostal because I saw a lot of weird stuff going on under those banners. It’s nice to see that there are others out there that believe in the the fullness of God while keeping focus on Jesus Christ allowing Him to sanctify us that He would be glorified and honored in all that we are and all that we do. To Him alone be the glory!
You made my day! I’m so happy to read you were blessed by this older post…
Like you i didn’t grow up in church so when i was saved one beautiful morning in 1980; it was at home. Little did i know when i awoke, that later that morning my life would be changed forever. Praise God! The terms charismatic or pentecostal had no meaning to me at the time…or for some time afterward. Through the leading of the Holy Spirit i was invited to visit a relatively small, new, non-denominational pentecostal church which (i eventually came to understand) believed and taught the gifts of the Spirit are still operating today. It was not what we think of today as a ‘charismatic’ church where weird, bizarre, unbiblical things occur, for the focus was always upon Jesus. I was in this church for many years until our pastor was called home to be with the Lord.
This post was important to ‘put out there’, for many Christians have a misconception that all charismatic churches are pentecostal and all Pentecostals believe in the unbiblical shenanigans which have been adapted into churches calling themselves charismatic or in some instances today, even “pentecostal”. The chart i linked to (Pentecostals And Charismatics: What’s The Difference?) spelled out many of the differences.
John Piper wrote a wonderful (biblical) 3 part series which is linked to and located in the side-bar under ‘Signs and Wonders’. I believe you might like it!