This is an excellent message from Yesu Mulungi ministry, by Kato Mivule
There are many lessons that Christians today can learn from the writings of Paul the Apostle in the epistle to the Romans. Just like we saw in the first part of this series, there were Christians who remained faithful to Jesus Christ during the Roman Global Empire. They faced many of the same challenges that we face today as Christians.
Today, we have many Christians who live in the most powerful nations of the world – Western Nations. We live in a secular world and one that is increasingly becoming more deeply secularized and, with strong antipathy towards Christianity.
However, many Christians get caught up in physical fights in trying to ‘un-secularize’ society through political maneuvers, such as having Christian Presidents and Politicians. As I have noted on a number of occasions in many of my articles, that such notions of ‘Christian Politicians’ is unbiblical and a distraction from our true Christian Witness in the world.
There is also a tendency to paint Christians in the Western World as ‘immoral’ simply because nations like the USA condone Abortion, Homosexuality, Gay Marriages, and other social ills that Christians find morally reprehensible.
This is especially true in the ‘Bible Prophecy Circles’ and Christian Political movements that see Christians, in the Western world, not doing enough to stamp out all social moral ills such as Abortion, Homosexuality, and Gay Marriages.
However, as I noted before, these social moral ills that we see today were very well present in the Roman Empire. Yet Paul the Apostle addresses Christians in Rome who lived at the heart of the Roman Empire that happened to be the Political, Social, Military, and Economic powerhouse of the world during that time.
Faith of Roman Christians Spoken of in the whole world…
Romans 1:8-17
(8) First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
(9) For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Interestingly Paul writes to the Christians in Rome and tells them how their faith was spoken of all over the world. We know that the Christians there suffered great persecution under the Roman emperors, yet Paul attests to their Faith in Jesus Christ being atestimony in the whole world. These are Christians who were fed to lions, used as Gladiators in Roman coliseums yet they kept their faith in Jesus Christ.
This is the test that Christians must face today in this globalized world.
There is a growing antagonism towards Christians but shall we live up to the challenge and will our faith be spoken of as an enduring faith and persevering faith in the 21st Century?
What kind of testimony is being heard in the whole world about Christians who live in the Western World today, especially the USA?
Yes, there have been great missionaries from the USA who have ministered in the whole world, many Christian philanthropists who have fed the hungry and clothed the naked around the world. However, it seems like the current testimony coming out of Christianity in the West is mostly Prosperity and Political Christianity…
However, a time of great persecution is coming and will be focused mainly upon Christians in the West, who have largely enjoyed a time of laxity.
It is then that a different testimony, about endurance and perseverance, will replace the current testimony of Materialism, Greed, and Political Christianity.
Paul the Apostle prays for Christians in Rome. He did not cease praying for them. I have heard many folks especially in the ‘Remnant Movement’ state that The Lord told them to stop praying for Christians in America because of the falling away from orthodoxy in the Church and the increasing worldliness in the Church.
After some study of the New Testament, I find such attitudes unbiblical.
Paul the Apostle always prayed for the Saints and he shows us in the verse above that he prayed unceasingly for the Christians in Rome.
This is a challenge that we have even today, that we Christians will take on the obligation to pray for Christians everywhere, especially the West and USA which happens to be the most powerful nation on earth in our day.
Rather than simply, condemn and damn Christians in the West, because they live in a ungodly society, it is incumbent that we do exactly as Paul the apostle did…offer unceasing prayers for the saints in Rome.
Ministry Opportunity in Rome…
Romans 1: 10-13
(10) Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
(11) For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
(12) That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
(13) Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
We see that Paul sought an opportunity to go to Rome and minister the Gospel of Jesus Christ and establish the saints there. Paul was not concerned with having a Christian Politician elected to stop the Homosexuality in Rome; he rather opted to minister to the saints in Rome.
I had one individual who told me that the time to preach the Gospel in the USA was over because of the sins that the USA has committed against The Lord. I strongly disagreed with the individual as that concept is totally unbiblical and cannot be supported anywhere in the New Testament. This individual went even further to tell his followers to prepare to ‘flee the USA’ as that was the only solution because ‘the Gospel had ended’ in the USA.
Brethren, we need to be careful, such notions are not from The Lord but individuals who are simply using the current global economic crisis to promote their own philosophies detached from the Bible.
It is imperative to watch as cults tend to rise and emerge and get footing during times of Crisis as the leaders of such groups use natural catastrophes, economic crisis, and disasters to manipulate and use mind control to convince their followers that the end of the world has come.
Paul on the other hand looked for an opening to minster the True Gospel in Rome.
There are still Christians who truly love Jesus Christ in the West and have stood faithfully before The Lord in this regard despite the evils going on in Western Society.
Paul Ready to Preach the Gospel Even in Rome…
Romans 1: 14-15
(14) I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
(15) So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Paul was ready to preach the gospel even in Rome. So, were does the notion that ‘the gospel has ended in the USA’ come from? If Paul was alive today, he would repeat the same statement to the West and the USA…”I am ready to preach the Gospel to you in the West and the USA also!”…
Paul purposed to preach the gospel to both the Greeks and Barbarians. The Greeks were seen as the most intellectual and philosophical elite in society and the Barbarians were seen as violent, terrorists, unwise, low class and evil. Yet Paul purposed to preach the gospel to both classes of people.
We live in a class caste globalized society today and yet, even in nations like the USA, such a class caste system exists only because it is never acknowledged publicly. Just like Paul the apostle to the Romans, we are called to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to every class in society.
The trouble is that many preachers, prophets, teachers, and priests in the USA are preaching a different gospel. They are preaching ‘another gospel’, one of materialism, Man Exaltation, Political Christianity, and a gospel that encourages and condones sin.
I believe this is what will spark off the coming great persecution…it will come from within the Church itself as those who preach the false gospel conflict with those who preach the true gospel.
Paul Not Ashamed of The Gospel, even in Rome…
Romans 1:16-17
(16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written. The just shall live by faith.
Reading the text above brings the suggestion that perhaps preaching the gospel during the Roman Empire times was a shame and a scorn. There is no doubt that it was a shame for one to preach about the Cross of Jesus Christ.
The Cross was a symbol of scorn and shame during the Roman Rule. Christians were seen as the least of society and were used as objects of entertainment by being fed to lions in Roman Coliseums.
Today in the West there is a steady and increasing antipathy towards Christianity and Christians are increasingly being looked upon with scorn and shame. This anti Christian attitude will only continue to increase and will not rescind.
However, just like Paul the Apostle was not ashamed of the True Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are called today to the same calling…that we be not ashamed of the Gospel even in this Globalized World Today.
In Christ Jesus
Kato Mivule
"If the professed convert distinctly and deliberately declares that he knows the Lord's will but does not mean to attend to it, you are not to pamper his presumption, but it is your duty to assure him that he is not saved. Do not suppose that the Gospel is magnified or God glorified by going to the worldlings and telling them that they may be saved at this moment by simply accepting Christ as their Savior, while they are wedded to their idols, and their hearts are still in love with sin. If I do so I tell them a lie, pervert the Gospel , insult Christ, and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness."
Not much you can do with that message. I would polish it up a bit with a verse though and insert something he did not raise in the message.
The verse:
Act 8:1 And Saul approved of his execution. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Now, as I have said before, I am a stand up guy. I stand up for Jesus Christ and have records to prove it that several times my life has been in jeopardy for my position taken wisely, which was granted to me for my Salvation, “His Faith”. We are called upon to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves!
One brother said this and I happily agree: ” A dead man, you know, you can throw him into a busy street and cars and trucks can run over him and he won’t complain once about the impacts!”
Here in the verse cited above we should note the last three words of that verse, Acts 8:1 and realize what seems to be missed today because of the global hostilities mounting up against the Church:::>
Heb 2:7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,
Heb 2:8 putting everything in subjection under his feet.” Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
When your eyes are focused on Him, nothing, nothing, nothing is going to move you, God’s Minister people, from the foundation of His Faith. This is God’s business and we ought also and equally wrestle for and obtain that Sabbath Rest spoken about at Hebrews 4! All of God’s promises were made to “One man”, the Seed promised to Abraham, Who When He comes will bring about a blessing to the families of mankind fully invested in Him! This too is a God thing.
So I say, as in the days of the early apostolic Church so it will be in these days too upon whom the ends of the ages are come for the current apostolic Church!
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
Heb 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If persecutions rise up in America and Godly people flee, one thing is certain, God’s Minister people will be the exception not the rule; Acts 8:1!
After the last conversation on The Fairness Doctrine, it will be interesting to see where this one may go!
In seems to me in thinking about this whole issue that there are two extremes Christians fall into these days. One is the dominionist group that believes that Christians have to take over ever aspect of society, including government, and make it all Christian.
The other extreme, in my opinion, is the one that says Christians are not to have any concern about anything in government at all.
I certainly do not for a minute believe that we can legislate morality. Using the example given in the article above, homosexuality isn’t going to come to an end because government makes it illegal.
However, when we live in a country where we have a vote and a right to express our concerns, it seems to me to be foolish and irresponsible to just totally ignore the political, secular government process at all. Our voices can be heard and to one extent or another, can make a difference.
Proverbs 14:34 says, “Righteousness exalts a nation, But sin [is] a reproach to [any] people.” NKJV
If things are sinful from the top down, legislated by the government, it is obvious that sin is going to be a reproach. And while there is no way we can legislate morality, we can certainly make our voices heard and shape the direction of the nation as much as we can in that way.
It goes without saying, however, that making our voices heard in that way has to be backed up by a life lived in a way that pleases God.
And please don’t get me wrong here. I in no way believe that as a Christian our major emphasis is to on changing the nation into a Christianized one. That is simply not where our emphasis is to be and it is not going to happen anyway. But I still don’t believe that negates the fact that we can and should be an influence when we have the opportunity.
By the way, I found the following statement in the article copied above to be rather ridiculous and pointless: “Paul was not concerned with having a Christian Politician elected to stop the Homosexuality in Rome; he rather opted to minister to the saints in Rome.” Obviously, in Rome no politician of any sort was ever elected. It was a dictatorship.
I just had an added thought. The Bible tells us to submit to government and that all government is in place by His authority.
Our particular form of government is supposed to be representative of it’s people. Therefore, as Christians, do we not have the responsibility to make ourselves heard on issues? We are, after all, part of the people being represented here. If we don’t let our views and concerns be known, we are by default letting only the positions of the non Christians be heard and represented.
LOL, i like that Michael…
That’s why we vote Cheryl.. of course the day may come when we here in the US may be like many other nations today in which Christians live, and have no vote–
Perhaps you missed the author’s point: that being Paul spent his time, not attempting to change things in the kingdom of satan, but instead, like the example left by Jesus, he was concerned about “being about his fathers business”.
Which in this case was encouraging the church in Rome.
I believe the fact that we Christians in America are able to speak freely thus far, and have not lived under a dictatorship like Paul, that God would have us be a voice of reason in standing for Godly principles in the social and politcal arenas, as well as evangelizing.
Fighting against abortion, for one example, is being about our Father’s business as well, because He has said whatever is done for the least of His is done to Him. We would be looked upon as even worse hypocrites if we preached the gospel of eternal life on the one hand and didn’t object to the killing of innocent children on the other. Feeding the hungry was a priority of Christ’s as well. While preaching the gospel He engaged in the social arena of His times, and spoke correction to the Jewish leaders in the church, who had all but stopped practical ministry to anyone who wasn’t of their station.
I believe we need to consider that anything that God is against we need to be against also, and we need to work tirelessly to the best of our ability, to see that not only our faith is promoted, but perform the practical acts that show that faith to be genuine in all walks of life.
mbaker, i agree, our actions toward others, should always reflect our beliefs.
Christians should always show forth the character of Jesus to not only each other but to the lost. Its become a cliche but the adage ‘what would Jesus do?’ when looking at any person or situation, is what we should be asking. And how would he do it…
If we study the actions and responses of our Lord, to the world, recorded in the word, plus, how the early Church responded and reacted as well, we have an excellent blueprint to go by.
The author of the above message was trying to make that point: that like the church in Rome, we too are faced with the increasing wickedness and depravity of man, but that like the church in Rome, we too can be a ‘witness to the world’ by our faithful testimony of Christ here in the West.
Quotes From Above:
“I believe this is what will spark off the coming great persecution…it will come from within the Church itself as those who preach the false gospel conflict with those who preach the true gospel.”
“However, just like Paul the Apostle was not ashamed of the True Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are called today to the same calling…that we be not ashamed of the Gospel even in this Globalized World Today.”
All I can Say is Amen!
Isn’t this what we are truly seeing,
maybe to a lesser degree that spoken of above, NOW?
The True and The False Gospel at odds?
Thanks Once Again PJ,
you have a knack for presenting both well
so that they may be easily discerned one from another!
1 Corinthians 14:20
Brethren, do not be children in understanding;
however, in malice be babes,
but in understanding be mature.
~~
Cheryl U,
you noted above: “….If things are sinful from the top down, legislated by the government, it is obvious that sin is going to be a reproach. …”
My first response: “….ah, Satan is the god of this world and so in the vein of your logic, “his” world is a reproach in every government because all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God….”. God does not expect the worldly governments to reflect His Glory. He does hold the Body of Christ accountable for how we shine His Light of Glory in this reproach filled world!
We were all a reproach, you and me, all of us. It is from this lump of clay that God passes over some and not others.
The area I want to redress is this “movement” to make the world, clearly by the Lord’s Own Words Himself, a world governed by Satan, a Christian world. It is not going to happen. What you are espousing has an ideal attached to it, worthy as it is, that isn’t going to happen.
What I would rather you address is the two kingdoms, the Everlasting Kingdom of God Jesus and His Church were sent to proclaim His Faith to in the world and the kingdom of this world, under the direction of the god of the world where some of our own are living a lost and desperate life without the knowledge of the Heavenly Kingdom. People are saved by proclamation not legislation, as you pointed out above, we cannot legislate morality.
Paul wrote some strong words. Here are some of them:
1Co 6:8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud–even your own brothers!
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Governments control civil rights and enact civil responsibilities. Those at the top tend to be the well fed and prosperous among the people they govern.
Governments “uphold” the civil and criminal laws enforcing them by law enforcement agencies.
When a governor, a president, a prime minister, a potentate exercises powers beyond what is God ordained, which is happening more frequently these days or at least because of technologies to report it we are more aware of the corruption in governments, it is generally the Christians, one way or another, that rise up and do something to correct the imbalance of unauthorized power excess in society.
I do not believe Christianity should be silenced because of unauthorized power excesses. In fact Paul wrote that the Church is the guiding Light for those sitting in darkness when the excesses intrude upon our civil welfare:
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Paul, later on in the book puts this idea out for all of us to experience:
Rom 15:12 And again Isaiah says, “The root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles; in him will the Gentiles hope.”
Rom 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.
That implies that we are going to need the “fruit” of the Holy Spirit, “longsuffering” or as one brother likes to point out, “suffering” long in our world to keep hopeful of our future. There is no hope for the wicked. There is hope for a lost and dying world that God wants His Gospel proclaimed in!
So I am saying, that in this country, the United States, redress is a way of life, legally.
When the legal means are so corrupted by excessive use of civil powers, then the Church has a commission to keep by other means. If we can vote a morally sound person into a position of power and authority, that may make a difference. But if there are no politicians worthy of voting for, then we will have to make the difference up by other Godly means.
What makes a difference nevertheless, one way or the other is the Preacher and the Preacher’s calling.
The world is corrupt because of the top down reality we have noted already. The god of this world rules the world. He doesn’t rule the Church. Although, these days, it seems very dim in the “so called” church world!
The Church seems to be being corrupted by the world more and more so that there is no discernable difference between the world and the Church; and there will come a time when God’s Voice will yet again, maybe for one last time, put forth a call like we read about here in the book of Acts 3:
Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,
Act 3:20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
Act 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
The pendulum seems to swing back and forth. The great period of the Reformation was a call back to Light.
Now, some centuries later as darkness is brighter than Light, Light will again come forth and shine forth:
Mat 4:15 “The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles–
Mat 4:16 the people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.”
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Finally, let’s be clear about it, here is how Jesus responded to those who wanted a quick work of restoration in the Church the world had corrupted:
Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Act 1:7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Our main major mission is to keep the main major mission the main major mission and that is, “receive” the power of the Holy Ghost, become a “daily” witness and when necessary, “use” words and see that this main major mission is brought to the ends of the earth.
Where you are presently is “the ends of the earth” when considered in light of the rest of the earth.
Start being the Light of Christ where you are now. Let that Light shine now where you are and those sitting in darkness will see it clearly!
Know for a fact that not everyone sitting in darkness is being called and elected out of that darkness, only the Called and Elected are going to respond to the Light if someone like you will rise up and Shine, Shine, Shine forth the Light of His Glory, Cheryl!
The end time battle is clearly stated and if God does not intervene for the Elect’s sake, no creation would survive the great end time hostility coming upon the world because of the god this world and his rant against the heavens, the earth and the world and everything in it!
It falls to the Church to remind the world of these things:::>
Psa 89:4 ‘I will establish your offspring forever, and build your throne for all generations.’” Selah
Psa 89:5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O LORD, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
Psa 89:6 For who in the skies can be compared to the LORD? Who among the heavenly beings is like the LORD,
Psa 89:7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him?
Psa 89:8 O LORD God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O LORD, with your faithfulness all around you?
Psa 89:9 You rule the raging of the sea; when its waves rise, you still them.
Psa 89:10 You crushed Rahab like a carcass; you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
Psa 89:11 The heavens are yours; the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it, you have founded them.
Psa 89:12 The north and the south, you have created them; Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name.
Psa 89:13 You have a mighty arm; strong is your hand, high your right hand.
Don’t expect those sitting in darkness to rise up and establish that Truth! It will not happen!
But rather, keep the main major mission of the Church in these end times the main major mission and prepare for the worst as it is about to happen to those living in the world today!
Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
Mat 24:22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Michael,
You said, “The area I want to redress is this “movement” to make the world, clearly by the Lord’s Own Words Himself, a world governed by Satan, a Christian world. It is not going to happen. What you are espousing has an ideal attached to it, worthy as it is, that isn’t going to happen.”
I have said REPEATEDLY that I don’t believe we can make this a Christian nation–it is not ever going to happen.
However, I believe it was President Lincoln who called the government of this country a, “Governement of the people, by the people and for the people.” It is supposed to be a representative form of government.
It is supposed to represent the people. If those of us who know the Lord and support righteousness don’t say anything, are we being represented? If the government is “by” us, “of” us, and “for” us, don’t you think “us” had better make out thoughts known? If we don’t even try, that corrupt government of satan’s kingdom you spoke of becomes by default the government that “us” has agreed to!!
You said, “So I am saying, that in this country, the United States, redress is a way of life, legally.” So why do you have such a terribly hard time when some of us are concerned about laws or regulations that we see as unjust?? Why can’t we seek to have our opinions known and have whatever influence we can? I just don’t get it at all.
Again, I have stated repeatedly that I don’t believe this is to be the major focus of the Christian. But does it have to be totally one or the other?
Fred, i truly believe its exactly what we’re already seeing.
This is what i have watched develop:
We have fractions within the body of Christ in the West;
one attempts to see any and all situations, issues, etc. [inside and outside of the church] through the eyes of Christ and the scriptures, and reacts or responds accordingly.
the other, try as hard as they can, cannot see these same daily issues, situations, etc. in any way other then through natural eyes. They too, can only react or respond accordingly. (you could say these fall under what is referred to today as political Christianity)
THEN we have the promoters of the false Gospel:
there are so many off-shoots to this fraction, (false prophets & apostles, demonic doctrines, the NAR, the new breed and mystics, the Crowders, etc etc etc ) that its impossible to keep up with them. They re-produce like rabbits.
These, i do not consider to be a part of the body of Christ;
BUT they have and are garnering 100′s of 1000′s of followers, perhaps millions: and a certain portion of this multitude of followers has been pulled out and away from the real body of Christ.
We have so many fractions within what is referred to as the church today…if Jesus tarries, it can only end with open hostility and persecution from within. And im afraid the persecution will be upon those who follow the truth…
Satan’s goal is to destroy the Church. We know, because the word tells us, this will never happen. BUT it doesn’t stop him from trying.
Speaking of today’s church, for years he has planted tares within the body which have in turn, planted seeds. These seeds have produced “bastard” moves, doctrines, etc which took God’s children away from the simplicity of the true Gospel.
Its resulted in right-wing political ‘christianity’..which places its hopes on man or mans ability to bring about change, its also produced the false revival movement which in turn has defamed and blasphemed the very Spirit of God by the demonic manifestations, false signs and wonders movement.
The real battle is going to be between the Real Church and ‘Mystery Babylon’. These false fractions are a part of the whore, which is spiritual Babylon.
PJ,
You have said several times we are to vote to make our voices heard. I’m beginning to wonder why in the world you bother to do that since you are so sure that man can not in any way bring about change. If everything is going to be the way it is because God is in control and there is not reason to be concerned about anything, why in the world do you bother to vote?? If you can be involved in the secular government/politics in that way, why is it such a terrible thing when others try to influence government in other ways?? If you can vote because it is a legitimate way in our country to influence things, then we surely have the right to use other legitimate ways to influence things too! Sorry, but this is really starting to sound like a huge double standard here to me!!
I say amen to that last post PJ! “amen”, “amen”, “amen”.
Why not run for President, we need a good woman at the top from time to time?
Cheryl, if PJ refuses, you have my vote!
All kidding aside, Cheryl, you wrote in response:
“….If the government is “by” us, “of” us, and “for” us, don’t you think “us” had better make out thoughts known? If we don’t even try, that corrupt government of satan’s kingdom you spoke of becomes by default the government that “us” has agreed to!!
“….You said, “So I am saying, that in this country, the United States, redress is a way of life, legally.” So why do you have such a terribly hard time when some of us are concerned about laws or regulations that we see as unjust?? Why can’t we seek to have our opinions known and have whatever influence we can?….”
First, I am not sure you understood my point. The matter is not a matter of good and evil governments by “default”. God has already condemned us as evil, even the Israeli government. Even our goodness is rejected! So, it stands to reason that after Adam, all else is unworthy until Christ. Then after Jesus Christ, we still are all unworthy except when God reveals the Christ to us and we are then still unworthy at best. If it wasn’t so, Jesus would not have said to us, His Disciples, these things:::>
Luk 9:18 Now it happened that as he was praying alone, the disciples were with him. And he asked them, “Who do the crowds say that I am?”
Luk 9:19 And they answered, “John the Baptist. But others say, Elijah, and others, that one of the prophets of old has risen.”
Luk 9:20 Then he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” And Peter answered, “The Christ of God.”
Luk 9:21 And he strictly charged and commanded them to tell this to no one,
Luk 9:22 saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”
Luk 9:23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.
Luk 9:25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?
Luk 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
and
Luk 17:5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
Luk 17:6 And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
Luk 17:7 “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
Luk 17:8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
Luk 17:9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
Luk 17:10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
I would note the word “daily” and the word “life” in Luke 9 above.
Daily in the Greek is two words, kata and hemera.
kata
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): – about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
hemera
ἡμέρα
hēmera
hay-mer’-ah
Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle; day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): – age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.
That description is so all inclusive it leaves no room for me! I die daily or at least that is God’s intention for me.
He lives His Life through me daily as Paul also teaches:
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
Even Paul taught that we should yield to the working of the Holy Ghost minute by minute as those two Greek words define, “daily”.
Now to the other word “Life”.
That Greek word for “life” used in Luke 9:24 is the word “psuche”.
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay’
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: – heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
What we are struggling with together here today and yesterday and we undoubtedly will struggle with tomorrow is our feelings, our mind thoughts, will emotions, our animal sentient principle only.
Does that mean we are to be “deadheads”? No, I like Jerry Garcia!
You are right that we are a nation of the people, by the people and for the people. unfortunately, the Presbyterians and Lutherans and the great reformed Minds of the early Puritan age when this nation was founded are in a minority. I am happy about that because I am a Native American of Indian decent and we still don’t understand how the whites got so much control of our God given lands?
That does not trouble me one bit and should not trouble you!
We are not of the world and as the Lord Himself taught us, be of good cheer, He has and will continue too, through the Church, overcome the world!
So, once again, I express my deepest gratitude to you for allowing me by your responses to make even plainer and clearer what my intent is with you back and forth. I hope I am becoming more lucid and less obdurate? Do we have an agreement there?
PJ
..please tell me:
why there are so few messages like this one around..?
thank You for posting
Sorry Michael, still not at all sure I follow a good bit of what you said!
Hi Loneman!
Its a good message, isn’t it…
I also wish there were more like this too. Looking at the scriptures and learning how the early church responded to the outside world, is such an encouragement to the church today. I know, it teaches me a lot about how i should respond.