This country is nuts. I had to laugh at the craziness in this video clip…the conspiracy theories coming from this older guy plus the lady who yells out “BURN THE BOOKS!”. This apparently took place at a Glenn Beck Tea Party meeting. What’s not funny is the lady yelling out burn the books, probably doesn’t have a clue that Nazi Germany had a similar book-burning campaign in the early 1930′s:
The Nazi book burnings were a campaign conducted by the authorities of Nazi Germany to ceremonially burn all books in Germany which did not correspond with Nazi ideology. link
And then we act surprised when document like this surface from the Department of Homeland Security: 7 April 2009 – Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment
‘Burn the books’
‘What books’ the interviewer asked.
‘Evolution’ she replied.
‘They are brainwashing people’
Have to agree with that. At least, get them out of the schools.
They ARE brainwashing people.
I hear many personal testimonies of how youth, young adults
will not believe in Jesus, because they were taught evolution
in school, by those in ‘authority’.
Burn those, but only those, false, deceiving, evolution books.
Well Randy, i don’t think burning books is the answer. We’ve always had an anti-God element in the world and in colleges. Better way is to present them with the truth and allow the Holy Spirit to draw them to Jesus.
Its a dangerous thing when a country or its people want to begin burning books–
Christians can be just as reactionary as those they categorize as pagan or heathen or brainwashed…
Anybody that professes to be a believer & cannot separate science from faith has a real problem trying to communicate to a culture heavily immersed in technology & influenced by the sciences.
The world looks on in amusement at those 6-day creationists demonizing scientific disciplines as if the devil is out to disprove the bible come hell or high-water! To continue to insist on a young earth (6,000-10,000 years old) & a literal 24 hour creation account including all the viewable universe impresses unbelievers how? And how about all those sincere Christian scientists not impressed at all by the claims of Answers in Genesis which is real religious propaganda brainwashing all those that view any alternate origin explanations as evil. Sure. Take an unbeliever to a Creation Museum & see what a great witness it is. Sheesh.
All that BS about a slippery-slope doctrinal slide to perdition if one does not accept a literal interpretation of the first 3 chapters of Genesis is the silliest notion infecting the modern institutional church today. And then they try to defend it scientifically! The American Scientific Affiliation much more sober minded in its approach to the questions of origins. Thank God for such an intellectually stimulating alternative in the midst of religious anti-scientific bias that does not provide the answers it claims to do.
What if the miracle is evolution?
Burning scientific books as appropriate as razing all Creation Museums in the name of intellectual advancement.
The reason young people are confused is due to the AIG-type brainwashing suddenly being challenged intellectually by scientific disciplines as they attend higher education. Instead of being taught acceptable scientific explanations for origins as children they were restricted to a one-sided YEC religious bias that cannot be supported scientifically. It becomes a stumbling block instead of the proof it attempts to be. And the likes of Ken Ham make for poor spokespeople representing modern scientific discoveries & how they should be interpreted. Bad science does not make for good theology…
The left has already said they plan to infiltrate the mass rallies on April 15th to make the protestors look racist or idiotic. They’re basically going to out there holding racist signs and pretend to be a part of the Tea Party Rallies. As for the National Security article, such a thing could only be published under an Obama administration. There is a greater danger from leftists, like ACORN for example, than any “radical Right Wingers”. One of Obama’s mentors was actually a certain Mr. Saul Alanski (I think I spelled it right) who advocated commie revolution. Several of Obama’s advisors now are also associated with communist groups. One member, from San Francisco, used to run ‘STORM’, which was a Maoist anti-war organization. WND reported on it, but I double confirmed it by researching elsewhere. Basically, Obama is surrounding himself with professional busy bodies who do nothing but protest stupid things, and spread vile theologies. Then they alert homeland security to be on the watch out for ‘radical republicans’! Life is a joke.
LOL!! You’ve forgotten Janet Reno!
All kidding aside, i don’t agree with that statement Ricardo… its the time we’re living in, not Obama. Go back and read some other articles and proclamations which came out of the security council under Clinton and G.W. Bush.
I read the entire paper and saw no mention of radical republicans…only radicals period. (did i miss that?)
It warns against “right wing radicals”, to them, this applies to anyone who generally disagrees with them. You do not understand the mind of far left individuals, many of whom are suddenly being given power in high places. They’re intolerant beyond anything you can imagine. I know, because I’ve met them, I’ve read their books, I’ve read their speeches. They’re a scourge on freedom of thought and they WILL use the power of government to silence their opponents. It is only a matter of time.
I warn against right wing radicals! Time after time on this blog Ricardo i post items and comments warning Christians to be careful in associating themselves with these right wing radical political groups. What’s that make me?
I wasn’t born yesterday… and can say in all honesty in my over 60 years of living and half of those living for Christ, i’ve known people politically associated with what is known as left wing liberalism. And radicals (be they on the political left or right) are both intolerant. One side doesn’t ‘own’ intolerance Ricardo. And its why radicalism can be dangerous. The only thing we (Christians) should be ‘radical’ about is Christ.
That is a supposition on your part, not a fact from the paper Ricardo. And as i pointed out, you can go back and read similar papers [and warnings] sent out during other past administrations.
Isn’t that what any and every administration has done for at least the past 30 years, attempted to silence their opponents? So whats new? We’re always going to have those in immediate political power seeking to silence their opponents while the party out of power screaming to have their voices heard. Didn’t we have a similar scenario during the Bush years?
What do you think these tea parties are really about?…
These started out, or at least claimed to be, non-partisan: A ‘grass-roots’ movement of the people (of both political parties) likened to the Boston Tea Party movement, protesting taxes. Is it?
Heck no it isn’t…
What this movement has turned into is a movement headed up by those who are continuing to protest last Novembers presidential election. Its producing rallies with people carrying signs about impeaching Obama, questioning his citizenship, etc etc etc.. I know because one took place a mile from where i live.
These so-called tea parties are being promoted by FoxNews, right wing radio personalities, and those within the losing political party last fall. There’s nothing non-partisan about them.
As i read today:
The Boston Tea Party was standing up to tyranny after years of neglect. Not standing up to being mad that your candidate didn’t win. The tea was a symbol of the tone deafness and arrogance of King George. Everyone knew Englishmen (which the colonist were) could never live without tea, so British Parliament imposed a huge tax on it. So instead of Liptons (tea) being thrown into various bodies of water around this country – the symbolic equivalent would be cutting up your credit cards. Credit card companies are taxing Americans with no representation – but they know that Americans can’t live without them. So where’s the mutiny?
What it boils down to is radical left wingers have their ‘moveon.org groups while those on the other side of the radical coin have (for now) their tea parties.
Look at the 3 main (behind the scenes) organizers:
Three national-level conservative groups: : FreedomWorks, the conservative action group led by Dick Armey; dontGO, a tech savvy free-market action group that sprung out of last August’s oil-drilling debate in the House of Representatives; and Americans for Prosperity, an issue advocacy/activist group based on market principles.
[quote]That is a supposition on your part, not a fact from the paper Ricardo.[/quote]
That “paper” didn’t give very many facts at all. It just lumped together some common political issues and made it so that those who are on the “right” end of things are potential criminals. It even targeted returning military as possible damaged goods that could be converted to radicalism easily. You used it as a great proof of the eeeevil right wing conspiracy when you posted it, but the most disturbing thing is that this government report doesn’t provide any actual proof. It’s just propaganda. All the Pubs, they say, are going crazy because of a “black President”. That’s dangerous to the highest extreme.
[QUOTE]Didn’t we have a similar scenario during the Bush years?
[/QUOTE]
Like when?
[quote]Heck no it isn’t…[/quote]
Uh, yes it is, you’re calling them all liars then? They’re all radicals because you say so? I know of quite a few of them, and many of them are just normal folk who have become awakened politically recently due to recent events. I’ve even seen democrats who, while condemning Republicans, said they would now look to a third party because of the government’s actions as of late. Are we to believe they’re all “far right” militia men or radicals as you would have them be? PJ, your bias clouds your analysis.
Really? I think you need to read the original post again. The post concerned a Glenn Beck TP meeting in which some guy stood up spouting conspiracy theories and a lady who wanted to burn books..my providing the link [only] to the recent Homeland security paper sent out to law enforcement agencies, was to make the point that we shouldn’t be surprised when such things are issued to Law enforcement, when we have nuts meeting, talking such nonsense.
You ‘suppose’ too much Ricardo.
Of course we had similar actions and HS warnings during the Bush years! You know that so why question it? War protests were held on a daily basis somewhere (protesters stood outside the University of Cincinnati for years–i passed them daily on my way to work)…do some research Ricardo, go back into papers released from HS during the Bush years. While you’re at it, take a look at statements which came from the Clinton White House during his presidency–in particular those made by Janet Reno.
Its called politics.
No, im not bias Ricardo, im not blind either. Whatever this TP movement may have started out being about, its turned into something else entirely.
Ricardo i thought of your statement…
…when reading this tonight–you might be interested. This was issued last July under the Bush administration:
White Supremacist Recruitment of Military Personnel since 9/11
7 July 2008
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY/LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE
This intelligence assessment addresses the Terrorism (TERR) topic of the National Intelligence Priorities Framework and satisfies intelligence requirements contained in the Domestic Terrorism Standing Intelligence Requirements Set DT-I.A.3; II.B.1, II.B.3, II.B.5; III.A.2; III.D.1; and IV.1; FBI CT Production Topic 11, “Radicalization and Recruiting,” and Topic 13, “Weapons and Capabilities.” The assessment is based upon FBI reporting supplemented by open sources and includes information through 6 May 2008.
(U//FOUO)
This assessment examines why white supremacist extremist groups have attempted to increase their recruitment of current and former US military personnel, what success their recruitment efforts have enjoyed, and what impact such recruitment has had on the white supremacist extremist movement. The identification of current and former members of the US Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) in the extremist movement draws exclusively from FBI case files from October 2001 to May 2008. It is based on the assumption that military veterans involved in white supremacist extremism may exploit their accesses to restricted areas and intelligence or apply specialized training in weapons, tactics, and organizational skills to benefit the extremist movement.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY/LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE
Although individuals with military backgrounds constitute a small percentage of white supremacist extremists, they frequently occupy leadership roles within extremist groups and their involvement has the potential to reinvigorate an extremist movement suffering from loss of leadership and in-fighting during the post-9/11 period.
– (U) After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military veterans — including Timothy McVeigh — joined or associated with rightwing extremist groups.
– (U) A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that “large numbers of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces.”
You can read it all here: http://cryptome.org/spy-whites.pdf
My point in showing you this is to try to point out the report recently issued under the Obama administration is not ‘strange’ or even new. In fact its been reported today, that both of the reports issued during the new presidents time in office (the one last week and the one at the end of January) were both reports were begun under President Bush, prior to him leaving office.
Issued in January 2009, shortly after Obama took office:
Leftwing Extremists Likely to Increase Use of Cyber Attacks over the Coming Decade
…a number of emerging trends point to leftwing extremists maturing and expanding their cyber attack capabilities over the next decade with the aim of attacking targets in the United States…
It focuses on the more prominent leftwing groups within the animal rights, environmental, and anarchist extremist movements that promote or have conducted criminal or terrorist activities (see Appendix). This assessment is intended to alert DHS policymakers, state and local officials, and intelligence analysts monitoring the subject so they can better focus their collection requirements and analysis.
Read it all here: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Leftwing_Extremist_Threat.pdf#page=4
I see fundamental differences between the two reports immediately. This report cites FBI case files, specific examples of situations where White Supremacists have attempted to recruit military personel, and those situations where they were successful. The other one is also very specific about who it targets. This new report does nothing of the sort. It speaks in vague generalities that have no business being reported to the Public, it has little business being even in a report. Why were they leaked to the Media? Who leaked it? And why now? I’m surprised that you cannot see these simple points. The “source” of this report is merely in the imagination of the one who wrote it. Based on “internet chatter” that remains faceless, without truth in it. It’s a political weapon, that’s all.
I don’t know if “burning the books” would solve anything. However, I do know the effect that our school systems today have on our kids from K through college–I have seen the full spectrum of it. I will never forget when one of my sons came home from kindergarten and announced that the teacher had said something that I believed was truly unbiblical. And at the age of five my son wouldn’t believe what I said because, “the teacher said,” and obviously the teacher knew best! It is, I believe, way more than “an anti God element”, the whole system in the public schools is totally corrupt as far as I can tell.
Yes, it can be difficult raising children to believe God’s word over teachings they receive in schools; I raised a ‘pack’ of them myself and know first-hand.
PLUS, i worked a few years in the public school system.
You’re right, burning books solves nothing. Teaching our children the ways of the Lord and the word of God at home, is the obligation we as Christian parents have toward our children.
Though we can never make them believe, we can be faithful presenters of the truth in our homes–and let our own lives be an example to our children.
The word of God never returns void–and im a firm believe that if we teach the bible at home, regardless if our children go in wrong directions [for a season] they will remember the teachings they received at home when young, some day: I’ve watched it happen with my own adult children.
Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Don’t forget though Sam, these were those who believed on Christ Jesus, and they burned their own books. Not books belonging to others:
11And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
13Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
19Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. Acts 19
Ok, you got me, your right:-)
Who would decide which books should be burned? Books on evolution today…and the Bible tomorrow because it’s too divisive. “They” will be the same ones deciding who the “terrorists” are in the future too. Oh, that’s something to look forward to…I’m getting paranoid in my old age.
Mark, that thought went through my mind also.
You’re a student of history so i know you’re aware of the danger associated with allowing a group of people to make decisions on whats dangerous reading material and whats not. And you’re right–today it can be one type of reading material deemed dangerous, and tomorrow the bible.
Just to be fair here:
I was concerned too, so I listened to Glenn Beck’s radio program yesterday, and they believe this lady is a plant to stir up the pot. He even brought out the opposition to her position by folks at the meeting.
Whether she was/is a plant or not, however, the point is the same. I emphatically do not agree with burning books, but I think it is a matter of understanding that the same freedom that gives us the right to freely discuss issues of concern to us on Christian blogs such as these, is the same freedom this lady has to say what she said, like it not, and for folks to meet peacefully in these TEA parties and express their opinions.
I also think it is wrong to assume everyone who will attend these events are radical Republicans, or even an extreme right winger. There are a lot of moderates and independent voters out there who are just as frustrated because they aren’t being listened to by anyone in Washington. I will not be attending, but I know there are several folks like that who will be.
I believe a lot of need for this kind of stuff could be avoided if people would just take the time to deal with their congressional representatives directly, on issues which concern them most. That’s what I do.
Certainly some of our representatives seem to be out of touch with the people, and won’t listen. There’s another alternative: Recall them or vote them out if you feel they aren’t fairly representing their entire constituancy. Works for me.
I think its more about who’s sponsoring much of this…and im sure you’re right, not every single person attending these gatherings are radicals.
A few items around the internet today:
Fox teas up a tempest
quote..
On “America’s Newsroom” Wednesday morning, Fox News host Megyn Kelly declared that “it’s tea party time, from sea to shining sea.” A short while later, “anti-tax tea parties” rose to the top of the network’s Hot List.
In between, Fox News reporter Griff Jenkins — who earlier this week donned colonial garb as he traced the history of the tea party movement — reported on a tea party protest in Washington’s Lafayette Park. Meanwhile, Fox hosts Neil Cavuto, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Greta Van Susteren were all preparing for their own on-the-scene reports from tea parties around the country.
“Can’t get to a tea party?” Fox’s Bill Hemmer asked viewers the other day. “Fox Nation hosts a virtual tea party — you can check it out on the site, a location of a tea party in your area.”
Nobody’s covering the tea parties quite like Fox — and that’s prompting critics and cable news competitors to say that the network is blurring the line between journalism and advocacy.
“Fox appears to be promoting these events at the same time it is presenting them in a way that looks like reporting,” said Stephen Burgard, director of Northeastern University’s School of Journalism.
Burgard called the practice “pseudo-journalism,” adding: “We have seen this before from Fox News Channel, but its role as galvanizer of opposition to President Obama’s policies and leadership posture appears to be emerging.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21275.html
FreedomWorks Orchestrates ‘Grassroots’ Movements To Serve Dick Armey’s Corporate Clients
quote..
ThinkProgress reported last week that corporate lobbyists are helping to orchestrate the anti-Obama tea party protests. These lobbying-run front groups, along with promotion help from Fox News, are organizing the tea parties by calling right-wing activists and asking them to organize. They are also coordinating conference calls among activists, writing press releases, providing sign ideas, building websites supporting the protests, and distributing talking points so that the protesters can stay on message.
Today, FreedomWork’s Adam Brandon responded to the criticism that its efforts to organize these anti-Obama protests are ‘astroturf,’ saying that the organization’s work in coordinating and planning the events would be akin to “MoveOn’s model.” However, MoveOn is not run by corporate lobbyists and is funded by actual grassroots activists. On the other hand, the leader of FreedomWorks, Dick Armey, who is ranked as one of DC’s top “hired guns,” is a corporate lobbyist with a history of directing FreedomWorks to support the goals of his lobbying clients…
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/lobbying-clients-teaparties/
Works for me too! ahaha…
Interesting that Move On was a big supporter of Cindy Sheehan, the rabid anti-war protester, who camped outside of President Bush’s home in Crawford Texas. And interestingly enough it was a regular on CNBC, considered a very liberal network, who’s infamous rant on You Tube here inspired the original TEA party idea:
I think the key complaint for most folks is that everyone wants to express an opinion nowadays, but few want to listen and acknowledge that no matter what party is in the American people want one thing more than anything from their leaders: to be really heard.
Moveon.org’s position on the war wasn’t a surprise… all the radical left wing groups took a stand, regardless of what that stand was about, against anything Bush did.
I think this is what all radical groups/org do–if they’re on the far right or far left politically. And its why i could never associate with them.
Instead of looking at issues AS single issues–weighing them each as right or wrong, these groups [on either side] just automatically are against any and everything the other party is for.
Its stupid and ignorant, in my opinion..
I agree. But many folks consider ordinary Christians radicals! So it’s all in how you define the word, I guess.
I am concerned about this newest HS report. It says even ‘one issue’ people like those of us who quietly oppose abortion are threats. Or folks who have Ron Paul bumper stickers, of all things. How far away are we getting from anything sensible in this country when terrorists are released for blowing up buildings, and those of us who speak out against abortion and gay marriage are considered the enemy?
That’s pretty radical in itself.
Well, changing the number of nested comments allowed sure messed this thread up! ahahahahahaha!!!!
it reads now like we’re all talking to ourselves…
maybe its for the best…
Yes, because my last comment where I said “I agree” was in response to one of yours, not the one of Ricardo’s above it.
That’s going to make for some interesting reading all right for someone new to the thread!
I suspect, though, that violence is on the way. Like that “plant”, I wonder how long it will be that some attack will happen, or violent action, that will allow the government to pass laws so vague that they’ll be able to round up anyone who disagrees with them? That HS report is like the preparatory stage. Let’s start telling the American People that “right wing extremists” (anyone the Left views as an enemy) are potential killers. Then the moment something does happen, whether it was from a lone nut, a Islamic terrorist, or a Russkie Spetznaz, Obama and his ilk will start shouting in “indignation” against their enemies. After that, it’s open season on their political enemies. I’m not a NWO moron or anything of that nature, and I don’t accuse the government of conspiracy, but if violence happens, and its violence against the government… I know what the government’s next steps will be.
Ricardo:
Can’t imagine why! aahahahah…
Face it Ricardo, you’re a radical ‘little right-winger’.. ahahaha
By the way, PJ, Glenn said on his tv show today that it turned out the woman really was a plant. She was making fun of the organization. Of course, I wouldn’t expect you to persue that and correct the record. Nah, the “right wing extremists” want to burn books and such, that won’t change your opinion.
And Lou Dobbs reported differently. And see Ricardo, that is the problem, we can’t really place faith in the media here.
Its one reason i read news reports from news organizations around the world on a daily basis–and even those i take with a grain of salt.
It’s all rather irrelevant in the end Pj, what you or Dobbs think.
I watched those protests myself, and they were utterly unlike anything you see on the left. Down here in Texas we had our usual Mexicans (like me!) BBQ-ing and listening to music while holding signs. There were no people throwing chairs, no people cursing or carrying symbols of Obama getting raped or murdered, no pictures of communist or fascist dictators or “revolutionaries”, none of it at all. There were over 250,000 people protesting confirmed, and some people claim as much as a million around the country, and in general these people didn’t appear to be “extremists” in any sense.
Ricardo, why do you become so angry and snippy when anyone points out something you don’t agree with? sigh…
Irrelevant… well i could say the same concerning you or Glenn Beck, but where does that get us? no where…
My point was we will hear any number of differing news reports on any topic.