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Mary Glazier and Dutch Sheets, top leaders in C. Peter Wagner’s New Apostolic Reformation, appear at Sarah Palin’s central church, the Wasilla Assembly of God.
The New Apostolic Reformation is coalescing from apostolic networks of the Third Wave movement which, according to World Christian Trends AD 30 To AD 2200 had by AD 2000, encompassed 295 million Christians worldwide.
Filed under: The Church | Tagged: Dominionism, New Apostolic Reformation, Dutch Sheets, 7 Mountain Theology
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Wow. Glazier’s “prophetic word” just the usual Charismatic fluff until the end where she says “We (alaska) are the entry point for the ancient of days.” I’m not kidding. Surely this is NOT God speaking.
I guess this leaves two possibilities:
1) SHE THINKS The return of the Lord will take place in Alaska, not Jerusalem.
2) SHE THINKS that something MORE than the GOSPEL is now needed for the Lord to gain entry into people’s lives, that the scriptures – the Word of God which will accomplish that which He sends it to do – is not sufficient.
Both ideas contradict the Bible. What are these people thinking. This was only a 6 minute clip – did the Pastor make correction later in the service?
oh, my!
She’s one of Wagner’s inner-circle prophets/prophetesses and coordinator of the US Global Apostolic network.
I seem to recall a few other ‘prophecies’ coming from these people concerning basically the same thing or idea (about Alaska), last fall prior to the election. I know a few of them have made trips there in the last 9 months.
Miriam, at endtime prophetic words, posted a couple things about Glazier last year Bill, but i must have missed seeing (at the time) that she is a member of the NAR.
- Sarah Palin’s Faith: Pentecostalism & Politics
- Mary Glazier & C Peter Wagner’s New Apostolic Reformation
Also see: Prognosticators in the Land
- THE NEW “APOSTOLIC REFORMATION” DECEPTION
- Seven Mountain Mentality
I don’t think the Wasila AoG church is Gov. Palin’s current church.
That said, rumors of this sort of connection keep me from being part of the evangelical and conservative Sarah love-fest.
(And what does it mean that something’s ” Sarah Palin’s central church”? Sounds like someone’s unclear on the lingo.)
Except that Sarah Palin has not attended Wasilla Assembly of God in about 7 years. And the meeting was a community wide event held at Wasilla Assembly of God, attended by about 700 people from over a dozen different churches from around the Valley.
The point was it was an NAR event Todd…
Then why mention Sarah Palin?
Lee, i’m assuming Bruce at youtube, was pointing out it is the church she has primarily called ‘home’ in the past…
You can read his post[s] on the subject at Talk to Action. Here is one:
Palin’s Churches and the New Apostolic Reformation
Because there was involvement by Palin with members of the NAR in the past–in fact Rick Joyner spent a considerable amount of time with her via telephone in recent months.
I am reminded of a time back around 1975, give or take a year or two. We had all kinds of people come and give testimony of their life in Christ. Once, we had a batton twiller that gave a testimony while spinning various objects. One was a flaming batton.
He was kind of effiminate.
I didn’t invite him to speak but because of my desire to have as much of Jesus in my life as I possibly could, I attended the the event.
Does that mean I embrace effiminate flaming batton twillers?
Give Sarah a break.
rick,
this isn’t about Palin but concerning the NAR and its members.
its always interesting to me to see who [and how many], at the mere mention of certain names feel a need to jump to defend. Palin’s name is one of those. Even if the topic isn’t about her..
Our modern day idols may not consist of graven images made of wood, stone, or metal, that we bow before and worship. They can be people we venerate (revere). As Christians, our veneration should only be toward God. Idolatry is a heart issue, and if not careful we can end up worshiping “the creature more than the Creator” (Romans 1)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Ex 20
Little children, keep yourselves from idols; 1 John 5:21
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:14
THE NEW CATHOLICS: POLITICS AND POWER
[ the deceitful agenda of the NAR ]
I’m serious about this. The Catholics have it all in their Name; meaning universal, and the Catholics BIG hammer has to do with Apostolic succession. I am not surprised by Palin’s leanings here. They pursue every avenue, and also the politician worth his or her salt realizes the worth of religion. The dominionist’s theology serve them the best though, for it brings condemnation to all who won’t submit under it’s jack booted heel. Every European monarch has used the Catholics or the Anglicans [ better suited here to compare the NAR with Anglicans, I guess] to reign in the masses.
[ By the way, Joyner has been the headliner at ALL Catholic events, been "knighted" at the Vatican, and claims north American rulership over his Catholic order , "Knights of Malta". He carries a silver broadsword around with him, and has knighted several of his cronies. no kidding. ] He claims the VATICAN gave him this authority….]
It’s going to be a lot of fun, though, when it comes time for a POPE to be coronated. Who will it be? I’ll bet you a corn cob that there will be as much intrigue, cloak and dagger, and betrayal as there ever was in the Vatican of old. Several Popes were assassinated, or just, “fell ill and passed ” after a few days in office. ]
Anyone who willfully communes or submits to these greedy , power hungry wolves deserves their teeth sunk into the back side of their overgrown derriere’s. I’m actually prepared to be entertained, and my take on it all is that they will come to nothing sooner than later. The money is running out for them too, and their sizing up each other has how and when to strike.
Oh, my kingdom for a horse! In this case, more like a horse’s —.
WHAT!?
Well i didn’t know that Tom…
Yes. At the core is their “reclaiming the 7 mountains” mandate. And one of those mountains they believe they MUST reclaim, take and control, is secular government. From my research, its why they had their eye on Palin, from the time she entered local politics at 24.
Some of this is interesting….
quote
Transcript; Mary Glazier Video-
On their website, Reclaim the 7 Mountains, they say this:
“We all agree that the society to be transformed is not just one big conglomerate, but a unified whole that is made up of several vital pieces, each one of which must take its own path toward transformation. These segments of society should be seen as apostolic spheres.” –C. Peter Wagner, The Church in the Workplace, (Regal, 2006)
“If the world is to be won, these are the (7) mountains that mold the culture and the minds of men. Whoever controls these mountains controls the direction of the world and the harvest therein.’” — Lance Wallnau
“We all agree that the society to be transformed is not just one big conglomerate, but a unified whole that is made up of several vital pieces, each one of which must take its own path toward transformation. These segments of society should be seen as apostolic spheres.” –C. Peter Wagner
“He [Wallnau] calls them the seven mountains. The warfare strategy is that ‘if the world is to be won, these are the mountains that mold the culture and the minds of men. Whoever controls these mountains controls the direction of the world.. — C. Peter Wagner
Source, Dutch Sheets: 7 Day Prayer Strategy, “Reclaiming the 7 Mountains of Culture”
Someone up above said this was not Palin’s current church. That it probably true. However, for what it is worth, at the time of last year’s campaign, it was reported by various sources that she still attended there for special events several times a year. (I believe that is the frequency given.)
The connections with the vatican seem to be overstated; I don’t think the knighting took place there.
Google Joyner Knights of Malta.
I’m not sure where he was knighted. I do know that he went to the Vatican by invitation, and yes, he was knighted. Probably by a north American Cardinal or
bishop? Maybe the Knights are a para-Catholic group”…who knows, or cares.
I do know that he claims to be the north American leader of this illustrious pagan and secret society. I saved a clipping of one of the north American Catholic Prophetic conference circa 1997. There were perhaps 40 speakers , all Catholic, some wearing the collar, some not, but with titles, and little ole’ Rick, as a headliner.
He claimed , obviously, that he had been given this authority, and associated it with his Vatican visit, I believe. Whether decreed and ordained there, I am not sure, but Joyner claims it was discussed on this journey. [circa 1996? ]He’s written about it. He went with Bobby Conner, and met at the Vatican to discuss this venue. Joyner claimed much supernatural too-doo occurred, with Divine appointments thrown in to validate this nonsense. If I’m off, it’s not by far. You are right, though, I am not sure if he was knighted at the Vatican, though probably rather than possibly would have been more fitting. My bad.
He’s a popist for sure.
I agree with PJ and get that the article is about the NAR, not about Sarah Palin. Whether she attends Wasilla AOG anymore or not, it was likely a formative part of her christian life & beliefs. I remember the church I attended back in Seattle 8 yrs ago had a profound effect on my beliefs until recently when I discovered there was much error in the messages taught there. Much of which, was NAR stuff. But the dominionist nature of NAR is feeding a large segment of evangelical churches today, whether they realize it or not.
Barbara, i can believe it. Dominionist theology and beliefs is something im noticing more and more in MANY messages coming from pastors and/or preachers, from within all denominations. Its likely that a large segment of these don’t even know what dominionist theology is, but have nevertheless picked up its ideas and beliefs from other sources.
Wow PJ,
You are going to label me as having an idol in my life? For your information, I wouldn’t vote for Palin to lead in anything. However, if the article has nothing to do with Sarah, then why put her name into the mix?
If it’s about NAR then it’s about NAR.
Why have a link in related articles about which churches she has attended?
Maybe you should do a little heart check as to why you keep linking about her. Just saying.
If you are referring to the links to Miriam’s blog, its because that was the title of the post Rick. …the content included info concerning Mary Glazier, which is who Bill mentioned.
You may say you wouldn’t vote for Palin, but sure are touchy if her name is mentioned.
Thank you Rick…i wasn’t aware you were a member of the blog police. Plus, silly me, i thought this was my blog. ahahaha…
All kidding aside, please understand, i will link to anything i believe is pertinent to a topic being discussed. As in this case, the church in which Sheets and Glazier were recently videotaped was the Wasilla AOG. A church Palin was/is associated with.
The idea that this group teaches and spreads 7 mountain theology, (dominionism) and that one of their goals is to place their people in power “inside” these “7 mountains” (one being government) should be reason enough to understand why Palin’s name ‘might’ be mentioned: after all, the NAR organization worked very hard behind the scenes, in her behalf, prior to the election.
You need to wake up Rick, and take a long look at just what this organization is and what it’s goals are, and stop worrying about who’s name gets mentioned. Do some research for yourself…
“295 MILLION Christians worldwide!”
{ number encompassed in 2000 by NAR networks…….}
Poppycock! show me the demographics! Now “emergent”, well, maybe 7-10 million , but as far as the NAR “coalescing with that number of devotee’s, it is a collasal exaggeration. The Catholics only have a billion!, and now Wagner and sheets and crew have about a third of their power?….and that was 10 years ago. They’ve got to be 7 or 8 hundred million by now!
Now this is the scenario; a reporter for World Christian Trends CALLS Dutch Sheets, and asks him to report on their numbers. Sheets drools at the opportunity to aggrandize his perceived authority, and shoots the moon. He then becomes the Largest De Facto Protestant denomination in the history of the World, and is only second in power to the Pope and his Catholic minions. With those kind of numbers, he would have a side office at the United Nations, similar to the Pope.
What a pompous and arrogant crew, and what kind of numbskull would report such a farse? You would have to have your head hidden somewhere…[ LOL ]
It reminds me of a infamous co-worker of the NAR as he fell into gross exaggerations that were indeed pathological…..ANOTHER RES-S-S-SURECTION FROM THE DEAAAAD! “What is the number now, about 30 isn’t it?”….[ Bentley to co-worker on the stage in Lakeland, as a young girl relates a demonic visitation and nightmare....]
I can see Sheets now, as he chews his Doublemint a bit more quickly, as the reporter waits for her statistical information on the phone…; “That would be 295 million…yes, that’s it….worldwide ya know!…every continent, every city…we’ve even got a congregation in Anartica! Bigger every day! We’re collosal!
” Whew! There be something quite rotten in Denmark, my boy!”
That number does seem a tad high Tom..
That’s their goal. I said in another thread months back, Wagner and Sheets remind me of Pinky and the Brain–they want to ‘Take over the world!’ LOL
Granted, we are in the midst of the great falling away, and yes, domionist theology is grinding away in the midst of most mainline churches, especially in the idea of Christian Politicians…[now that's an oxymoron if there ever was....]…but that is not the NAR.
The “Apostolic” reform, or the Apostate reform, as I call it, is an organization of self appointed czars over the churches, who have elected themselves to lasso all and any congregations into their corral of Authority. It is not every emergent wind of error that blows through that may or may not agree with the many heresies of the NAR, but a direct affiliation and submission to their organization. At some point, after the honeymoon period, these affiliates will begin to tithe to the top, and then host various venues with ministering affiliates. Everyone then gets a piece of the pie, all shoveled up by the proletariat here, the tithing laity; the common pew sitter.
It is red Popery all over again, complete with it’s hierarchy and aggressive control.This is why there has been an order to return to orthodoxy with the Kooky crowd, or else… Sianara! Mysticism of course can be taught, and experienced, but in a lesser, more socially acceptable venue.
I personally would doubt if the entire NAR has much more than 295,000 actual tithing laity involved; and as I stated before, a little ways from their claimed 295 million; Less every day, with the depression and all. Desperation is setting in, mark my words. Couldn’t happen to a nicer group of guys.
Thomas,
I’ve got a whole sidebar section re: Joyner and Swordplay on the Beyondgrace blog.
Anyhow, here are two interesting articles.
http://www.harvestnet.org/lookback/god’slightningrod.htm
http://www.pawcreek.org/articles_pcm/end_times/new_world_order1.htm
bill: Wow! This was the exact article I was referring to…[ the Joyner tapes..] thank you for your research! what a crew Bill! do you think that they are really involved in pure sorcery? It could be, but I never considered it. I thought Bentley was conscious of it, but the entire Morningstar staff?
Also, their blatant honor of the great Whore herself, Popism.???? what’s going on here?
anyway, thanks for the research; tom.
Can anyone tell me about this chief lieutenant of Rick Joyner’s, “….Tom Hardiman?….”???
He appears to be a pastor Michael:
After searching on dogpile, he is [ or was] the Northeast representative for MORNINGSTAR MINISTRIES and once senior pastor of LIFESPRING CITY CHURCH.
I noticed the Elijah List carries books with his name on them, also i found this:
Also see: Prophetic Conferences for 2009
- August 14th – New England and Canada Prophetic Round Table event with Tom Hardiman from MorningStar Ministries at the Augusta Civic Center, Augusta Maine. Click here for more information.(photo of Tom Hardiman at the link)
- August 14th -16th – Honoring the Fathers prophetic conference with Tom Hardiman from MorningStar Ministries at the Augusta Civic Center, Augusta, Maine. Click here for more information.
This man was here in my city Thursday evening and there certainly was a spirit that came with him.
That quote by A.W. Tozer at the entry way onto this blog last week speaks so directly to what I experienced by this man and his team.
“So skilled is error at imitating truth that the two are constantly being mistaken for each other. It is therefore critically important that the Christian take full advantage of every provision God has made to save him from delusion – prayer, faith, constant meditation of the Scriptures, obedience, humility and the illumination of the Holy Spirit” – A.W. Tozer
I can understand now, somewhat limited though, just why people would gather around these sorts of gatherings. There is a spiritual presence in the room that is so much like the Light of Glory you have to be alert and on guard.
He kept “having” a general word of knowledge for those gathered to hear him speak and kept hammering on what the solution was for us. We should have “more” conferences and round tables that his group can put on until the “spiritual” awakening that he was speaking from would get into us so we could take back our community! yuck!
I kept wondering why his solution was better for me than the Holy Ghost who resides within my soul knowing this:::>
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
What he was teaching was, he and his group, not “through Christ and His Work on the Cross in one Spirit”, was the way of access to the god of heaven. It was a creeping subtle deceit backed by a spiritual presence.
It made my inner most core being tremble at His Word just realizing how subtle that spirit was working the crowd through him and his group, which by the way, had as a part of his team, prophetic members of Bill Johnson’s Bethel church.
No wonder the Holy Ghost had Paul write this:::>
2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
My hope grows and grows in the Word. Words like these I mean to say:
Dan 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
If one does not heed Godly counsel and wisdom that shines like the brightness of the sky above and turn to righteousness, sadly this will be their end:::>
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Michael, that is a VERY important warning. I sure appreciate you giving it.
Having been in the presence of it, those like you know first hand how deceptive it and these ‘prophets/teachers’ can be.
While i don’t walk around daily fearing deception, im very aware it can happen to an of us (including me), if we don’t continue constantly to abide in Christ and, in the word. What was it Jesse Penn-Lewis wrote:
“if you think you can’t be deceived, you’re deceived already”
I believe that Michael…
You say the presence was so much like that of Christ’s Spirit–can i ask, how did you know it wasn’t? In other words, what tipped you off…
Was the inner witness within you, or what was being said?
PJ,
it was both, plus, I got tipped off who this man was a couple of days beforehand and basically because of all the press they get in here I thought it prudent to “experience” in person the words expressed both for and against NAR. There were several others who “perked” up and were guarded that I talked with afterwards, Friday and Saturday.
The subtleness of “positioning” himself as more spiritual than those gathered to hear him weighed on you after you left the meeting more than when he was speaking. Plus the warning signs began flashing when he kept “discerning” the spiritual lack in the room and the need for his conferences as “the” solution in the “region”. The problem was we were not agressive enough to take over the principalities and powers “controlling” the communities of my region. He was teaching a subtle form of dominionist theology, which is a doctrine of demons.
A.W. Tozer and the Apostle Paul and others throughout the ages, both had similar experiences citing as much. The one common denominator in it is the Holy Ghost, who has been here from the beginning, who is imperishable, undefilable and will not retreat from Truth as He too is the Spirit of Truth sent to those given “ears” to hear what He is speaking.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
I sure like the fight when “it is” black and white. But in these days, grey weather seems to be the order of the day and fight! grrrrr
Note these verses and the one word “vigilant”:
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
and
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Michael I too appreciate this clear and poignant discernment about a Presence that is indefinable…..a feeling something like holiness, but a littler “heavier”, and a sure feeling of a type of exhilaration.
Napoleon Bonaparte, Vladimir Lenin, and Adolph Hitler all held a very similar “charisma” that carried a wind very similar to this expression of power. I too, have mistaken it for the lord. This was in my past, as I was growing up, and Michael, this is a very, very good sign that you have reacted in the way that you have, the spirit of truth rose up inside of you, and something was not right. This is at the heart of holy discernment, and it shows me that you truly belong to the Lord. You were convicted, by means of protection, of error and deception. Immediately you saw according to the Word the spirit, that always agrees 100% with the Word that is Written.
The Lord is jealous for His own, and guards them. PSALMS 23. He is ALIVE!
Thomas, amen!
I am useless with and without Him. It is Him with or without me or you or anyone who names the Name of Christ:::>
Psa 127:1 A Song of Ascents. Of Solomon. Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.
And, as it was for them then, so it is for us now:::>
Psa 130:1 A Song of Ascents. Out of the depths I cry to you, O LORD!
Psa 130:2 O Lord, hear my voice! Let your ears be attentive to the voice of my pleas for mercy!
Psa 130:3 If you, O LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?
Psa 130:4 But with you there is forgiveness, that you may be feared.
Psa 130:5 I wait for the LORD, my soul waits, and in his word I hope;
Psa 130:6 my soul waits for the Lord more than watchmen for the morning, more than watchmen for the morning.
Psa 130:7 O Israel, hope in the LORD! For with the LORD there is steadfast love, and with him is plentiful redemption.
Psa 130:8 And he will redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
“Except that Sarah Palin has not attended Wasilla Assembly of God in about 7 years. And the meeting was a community wide event held at Wasilla Assembly of God, attended by about 700 people from over a dozen different churches from around the Valley.”
According to the Wasilla Assembly of God website, Sarah Palin still attends “meetings” and “special conferences” at the church.
I can’t help but wonder if Pastor Ed, Pastor Todd, Pastor Phil, or Pastor Nathan have bothered to tell their flock that Mr. Muthee turned out to be an utter fraud (http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3773). I doubt it. I’m guessing they don’t want facts to get in the way of their little tax free magic show.
Of course Mr. Muthee is by no means the most bizarre figure to have spoken at Wasilla Assembly of God church, the church Sarah Palin attended for nearly 30 years. For instance, Lance Wallnau, who spoke at WAoG on June 7th of 2009, told the congregation that Christians should be doing in the US what “jihād oriented Muslims” are doing in the Middle East. I’m not exaggerating- check out video of Wallnau’s sermon at the WAoG Video and Audio Archive (http://wasillaag.net) before it’s disappeared like other videos that were once there.
The Enemy
One of the links I posted didn’t format correctly. Here is a working link I hope…
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3773
Thanks for the link, i’ll check it out!
You’re welcome. I’m just hoping Pastor Todd of Wasilla will rejoin the conversation to give his take on the Women’s e-News article… and to perhaps explain why he doesn’t feel the need to make his flock aware of it. I’m guessing that Pastor Todd is bailin’ like Palin from this conversation.
The Enemy
Not bailin’… I just have a job, and a life, and too many responsibilities to waste my life arguing. I’m pretty sure nothing I could possible say on here would cause any of you to change your opinion (keep in mind that’s what we are discussing here, opinions), so why bother?
That Jane Njengu never left Kiambu is a fact, not an opinion. What is an opinion is the claim that she was the source of Kiambu’s problems and that removing her from Kiambu solved those problems- an opinion which your church promotes as fact.
Todd Stafford
With respect, the content on this site is not mere opinions. Everything is backed up by scripture. What is happening at an alarming rate is being brought to our attention here, and other such sites, for our better good. When I felt compelled to google the name of Todd Bentley last year, because of the sense of evil I felt at the very sight of him, I was aghast at what I discovered. I had never heard of the NAR, although names like Paul Cain and Rick Joyner were familiar, and I thank God so much for the truth that I gleaned from here and elsewhere.
‘
Everything gleaned has been married up to pure, unadulterated scripture, and the endtimes spoken of is clearly being played out before our very eyes.
Regulars like Michael, Thomas Watkins and pjm are God given watchmen/woman with their wealth of discernment and scriptural guidance, and it would ‘IN MY OPINION
be advisable to prayerfully take heed.
Pastor Todd,
Good to have you in the discussion. Ok, lets move past opinion to fact.
From one AGer to another – How is prophecy handled in your church? Are prophetic words judged? What did you make of this “word” by Mary Glazier? (see post 1)
“We are the entry point for the ancient of days.”
Are all words judged or do important visitors get a free pass? YEah that could make for some pretty uncomfortable moments.
-Bill