I’m not surprised at this breaking news, only that lives have not been lost before this. Wonder what International reactions this will provoke in the coming days.
Israel Navy troops opened fire on pro-Palestinian activists aboard a six-ship aid flotilla sailing for the Gaza Strip, killing two and wounding several others after the convoy ignored orders to turn back, Turkey’s NTV reported early Monday.
Earlier Monday, Al Jazeera reported that the Gaza aid flotilla had changed course to avoid a confrontation with Israeli warships.
The Israeli naval vessels reportedly made contact earlier with the six-ship flotilla, which is carrying 10,000 tons of humanitarian aid and supplies to Gaza.
The Israeli navy was operating under the assumption that the activists manning the boats would not heed their calls to turn around, and Israeli troops were prepared to board the ships and steer them away from the Gaza shores and toward the Israeli port city of Ashdod.
The flotilla, which includes three cargo ships and three passenger ships, is trying to draw attention to Israel’s three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. The boats are carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials.
The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers.
Full story here
UPDATE: At least 10 activists killed
As this story is still being played out as I post, there are breaking reports coming from a variety of news sources around the world.
This just minutes ago from CNN:
Israeli soldiers boarded a Turkish boat carrying aid for the Palestinian territory of Gaza during a pre-dawn raid, the Free Gaza Movement said.
“At about 4:30 am, Israeli commandos dropped from helicopter onto deck of Turkish ship, immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians,” a post on the group’s Twitter page said.
Video aired on CNN sister network CNN Turk showed what appeared to be soldiers rappelling onto the deck of a ship.
This is the ninth time that the Free Gaza movement has tried to ship in humanitarian aid to Gaza since August 2008.
Israel has let ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since a three-week military offensive against Gaza’s Hamas rulers in January 2009. The flotilla bound for Gaza is the largest to date.
Some 700 pro-Palestinian activists are on the boats, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and an elderly Holocaust survivor.
At Gaza’s tiny port, meant for small fishing boats, Hamas officials, activists and foreign nationals prepared to welcome the flotilla, sitting in some 40 small boats that were bobbing in the sea and decorated with the flags of the countries of the pro-Palestinian activists, including Turkey and Algeria.
In other boats, Gaza boy scouts played music, while on shore, other activists released balloons with the faces of Palestinian civilians and militants killed in battles with Israeli forces.
In Syria, eight Damascus-based Palestinian groups urged Arab and Muslim states to work to support the flotilla and warned Israel against committing any “foolishness to impede the vessels”
“This could create more tension and trigger unpredictable reactions,” said the groups, which included Hamas and the militant Islamic Jihad.
Related: Protesters try to storm Israeli consulate in Turkey
As long as the Zionist have the backing of the “Christian” Evangelical war machine of the U.S.A Israel can do anything it pleases including killing and injuring innocent civilians.
Oh! that’s right! How can I forget the 1967 USS Liberty. I guess attacking unarmed ships has been around a lot longer then this.
For this I’m going to donate double to the Temple Project this month. (Sarcasm Off)
Kyle
I am not sure this can be objectionable seeing there is avowance of total destruction of Israel by many Islamic nations around the world.
What is Israel suppose to do in a time of war? Are they suppose to sit back and let their avowed enemy resupply so they can come back stronger against them?
War is not pretty. People die. Innocent people die in war.
We have all read our Bibles to know that at the end of time Israel will be surrounded by the nations of the world. Maybe this provocation is what breaks the proverbial camel’s back? Maybe not? I kinda am leaning in that direction seeing the stance the U.S. government is taking toward Israel these days.
The Dominionists believe they can change God’s mind about Israel or about the nations of the world. Blogs like this one debunk that heresy.
Let us remember by way of reminder what God says through Ezekiel:
Eze 36:6 Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel, and say to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I have spoken in my jealous wrath, because you have suffered the reproach of the nations.
Eze 36:7 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: I swear that the nations that are all around you shall themselves suffer reproach.
Eze 36:8 “But you, O mountains of Israel, shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to my people Israel, for they will soon come home.
Eze 36:9 For behold, I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown.
I can rationalize present day Israeli people reading Ezekiel in “their promised land” and praying to God about those words.
Now True Israel is made up of both Jews and Gentiles called out of this world system and I suppose God is indeed able to “turn” to His people even in these days, the Elect Called Jews of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and as Ezekiel prophesies “till and sow” seeds which are the exceedingly great and precious promises of God to His Elect peoples around the world, as Peter teaches:
2Pe 1:3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
2Pe 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
Michael, from my understanding, and i do realize new-facts are still getting out, these were humanitarian activist bringing tons of supplies in answer to the very real humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
The entire Gaza situation is just heart-breaking
I would do anything to help.
Michael,
You said, “I am not sure this can be objectionable seeing there is avowance of total destruction of Israel by many Islamic nations around the world.”
I think you’re greatly blinded by media hype. First, the Flotilla was in “international waters” meaning Israel had NO RIGHT to intercept these ships. What Israel did is an act of “Piracy” by intercepting a sea faring vehicle. If they crossed into Israel’s territory that would have been a different story. However, as I stated countries can’t merely intercept, let alone attack ships in “international” waters. This is piracy.
Next, the ship was alleged to contain an American from the USS Liberty. If you have no idea about the 1967 USS liberty I suggest you look it up and see what was done to our own Americans.
Kyle
Hi Michael,
Earlier today I had considered responding to a number of things you brought out in this comment, but at this point I’ll limit myself to two of them:
Not all come to this conclusion when reading their Bibles. I used to, but not anymore (I’m still learning, but this is where I’m at right now). I assume you have Zechariah 12-14 in mind here. A surprising number of commentators in church history saw this passage as having been fulfilled in the first century AD. Philip Mauro is one of them (see the post on May 28th regarding Ezekiel’s temple). Are you thinking of any other passages which speak of the world’s nations surrounding Israel to attack that nation?
My intent is not to be combative here, and I know this is a popular interpretation today, but I can’t help but thinking of the implications of holding to it. If Zechariah 12 is a prophecy of what will take place in our future, and if every mention of Jerusalem in that chapter corresponds with the modern city of Jerusalem, then we see [1] that there is primitive warfare in our day, involving horses (verse 4) [2] all the inhabitants of that city are said to belong to the Lord of Hosts (verse 5) [3] a devouring of the peoples surrounding Jerusalem, with God’s sanctioning (verse 6) [4] the Lord protecting all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, which would include the Palestinians at this point (verse 8).
The fountain for the cleansing of sin (Zech. 13:1) would also only be opened up in our future, even though this sounds like a present provision of the cross. Other implications which come to mind involve Christian Zionist ideas that since God is about to defend and protect earthly Jerusalem in this way, that He is presently standing behind even the most aggressive policies and actions of Israel’s government and so should we. I hope you don’t mind me sharing these thoughts.
Again I question why this prophecy is seen as referring to present-day Israel. In verse 8 Ezekiel says, “for they will soon come home.” How would it have comforted Ezekiel’s ancient audience to know that Jews living nearly 2600 years in their future would return to the land of Israel? Also, how is 2600 years later “soon”? On the other hand, Ezekiel could speak with authority of a return which would happen (literally) soon after his own day, not only because he heard from God himself, but also because he knew of the prophecy already given to Jeremiah:
“For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you My promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will hear you. You will seek Me and find Me. When you seek Me with all your heart, I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile” (Jeremiah 29:10-14; cf. Jer. 25:11-14).
Michael, if the Bible predicts that the nations will come against Israel in the last days, is it the job of Christians today to 1) try to prevent the biblical prophecy from coming about, 2) try to cause it, or 3) watch and pray, and share Jesus as the hope of the whole world?
All the media reports are sure hard to sort through, in terms of deciding what is accurate and unbiased and what is propoganda. A few details seem to be certain, though: this happened in international waters (and therefore this would seem to be an act of piracy), and the ships inhabitants had no guns prior to the Israeli navy troops coming on board. I didn’t realize it, but this has been brewing in the news for several days. Here’s an insightful video from Al Jazeera News:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbBDNEP6Znw (analyzing the Israeli government claim that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza)
Another short video from Al Jazeera shows armed troops being lowered onto the ships deck from a helicopter, and it includes brief footage of an Al Jazeera reporter speaking live from the ship:
I took a quick look at CUFI’s webpage (www.cufi.org) to see what headlines they might be putting out there on this subject, and the only one I saw was titled “Turkish Relief Fund Involved in Gaza Fortilla Has Radical Islamic Orientation.” Has Hagee ever condemned any of the actions of the Israeli government, or can they do no wrong?
It will be interesting indeed to see what becomes of this, and also what kinds of stands will be taken by various Christian leaders in this nation.
I’m sure Hagee and CUFI will spin this to such a degree that by this time next week we’ll be reading this fleet of humanitarian boats was being led by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad himself!
Another interesting article is this editorial written for Haaretz, Israel’s oldest daily newspaper, by Gideon Levy (warning-contains sarcasm):
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/gaza-flotilla-drives-israel-into-a-sea-of-stupidity-1.292959
Adam, Gideon Levy’s article was excellent. Thanks for sharing the link.
What is he referring to concerning ‘Gaza Menu’s'… Do you know?
Yes, I believe so. If you’ll watch the first Al Jazeera video I linked to in my previous comment, toward the end of the video the reporter noted that the Israeli government press office sent journalists the menu of a restaurant in Gaza “in a tongue-in-cheek effort to prove there’s no food shortage” there. According to the restaurant’s owner, the vast majority of Gaza’s citizens couldn’t possibly afford to eat there. The Israeli Media Office also provided video of Gazans dining at that restaurant, but one of the diners was the Palestinian president who hasn’t set foot in Gaza since before the siege and blockade began.
Thanks Adam.. i did watch it after asking my question. LOL
This is interesting as it was just posted at 4:47pm:
At Least 15 Dead After Israel Attacks Gaza-Bound Aid Flotilla; Interview with Adam Shapiro, board member of the Free Gaza Movement, hours after the attack on the Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla.
There is a link to the audio (interview) and transcript both…
PJ
I want my views to be very clear here and understood regarding this matter.
I adhere, by the Grace of God and His Holy Spirit, sent to my wretched soul, to verses like these:::>
Pro 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink,
Pro 25:22 for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you.
One would hope those same Israeli people are embracing those verses as they certainly are the others I cited in my first post in here.
I remember being in a Synagogue in Sacramento, California many years ago when a member of the Knesset, General Levy, got up during a “joint” Jewish/Christian celebration of the book of Psalms and declared his Faith in the Words of God and that his God is a covenant keeping God and his God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And then he appealed to the audience to support Israel, both those present in the room and those watching the T.V. because all the major networks of the time were present with their cameras rolling showing the world the kind of unity Christians and Jews could attain too together when they set aside their differences and worshiped God according to the Book of Psalms.
While no doubt there are false brethren among the True Worshippers in Israel today, let us not lose sight of what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is presently doing because of His promises to them. As Ezekiel foretold, so it is apt that there should come this sort of provocation by present day Israeli people that causes the Word of God to be fulfilled.
As Paul wrote, here:
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”
Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
so it is certainly true today as it was during the time of that writing that false brethren exist in Israel!
If you read the whole chapter 36 of Ezekiel you see God’s judgment against the Edomites which confirms His word in Genesis and Malachi about Esau.
I have predicted that the great awakening of many of the “children of promise” in the last days in the nation of Israel will be because of the selfless sacrifices of many True Believers from Saudi Arabia, or Yemen, or Syria or Eygpt or Texas or Turkey or or or. The human flesh is an awful thing without the Spirit of Grace, as you most certainly yourself have attested hereon not on a few occasions in here.
The question is, who is driving that Israeli human flesh to respond to such humanitarian aid? Is it the Spirit of Grace and Peace or is it that old arch enemy of Christ and His Church?
We would hope the international community would truly yield to the Spirit Filled Grace, Mercy and Peace empowered Church to become the peacemakers Jesus foretold She is suppose to be in these last days of Jacob’s troubles:
Mat 5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
All the while we must not lose sight of this understanding about the last days:
2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
There is no good that can come from any outrage of the nations of the world turning against Israel now. But we know it is coming and unavoidable.
Now it is time for the Truth to come forth as their King David exalted, here:
1Ch 16:13 O offspring of Israel his servant, sons of Jacob, his chosen ones!
1Ch 16:14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
1Ch 16:15 Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
1Ch 16:16 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac,
1Ch 16:17 which he confirmed as a statute to Jacob, as an everlasting covenant to Israel,
1Ch 16:18 saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan, as your portion for an inheritance.”
1Ch 16:19 When you were few in number, and of little account, and sojourners in it,
1Ch 16:20 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people,
1Ch 16:21 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account,
1Ch 16:22 saying, “Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!”
1Ch 16:23 Sing to the LORD, all the earth! Tell of his salvation from day to day.
1Ch 16:24 Declare his glory among the nations, his marvelous works among all the peoples!
1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, and he is to be held in awe above all gods.
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the LORD made the heavens.
1Ch 16:27 Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and joy are in his place.
1Ch 16:28 Ascribe to the LORD, O clans of the peoples, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength!
1Ch 16:29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering and come before him! Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness;
1Ch 16:30 tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.
1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, “The LORD reigns!”
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.
1Ch 16:34 Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever!
Michael i have no doubt that the remnant of Jewish believers living inside Israel, do follow those verses. But this action concerning the fleet of boats and the actions which have taken place concerning the people in Gaza, (some of them also followers of Christ) are actions taken by the Israeli government: not the population of Israel as a whole….and most assuredly not by followers of Christ. There are many Israeli’s who abhor their government’s treatment of Gaza.
Michael, you seem to be saying that those who practice Orthodox Judaism, even though those who practice it deny Jesus Christ, are our brethren?
What makes us brethren is our abiding (or placement) in Christ. For Christ is the Great unifier! One body, one spirit….one Head; Christ Jesus.
Maybe im misunderstanding you??
Adam, you mentioned Hagee and CUFI and their basic lack of response. Well it didn’t take long for them to start spinning the PR wheels.
Its amazing as no one seems to have all the facts yet (due to the Israeli government issuing a black-out) that the directer of Cufi (Brog) has it ‘all figured out’..
The link below is to a commentary sent out this evening from CUFI.
Here we go again
Blackout? Pj, there are multiple videos of IDF soldiers landing onboard the ship as men wielding pipes, chairs, and knives are swarming ontop of them. What the hell is there to spin? Are you so seriously blinded by the god of this world that you cannot acknowledge such simple reality?
Yep, I received the same thing from CUFI earlier by email, in their weekly update titled “The Truth About the Gaza Flotilla and More.” It also included a link to this outrageous report by (apparently) an IDF commando titled “A Brutal Ambush at Sea”:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html
Yes, ironically enough, the IDF commando believes the “ambushers” were those whom they ambushed (not that I condone the actions of everyone on that ship either). I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry while reading this, but once I got to the comments section I had to do both.
A report has now come out, based on the testimonies of some of the first individuals to be released from the captured flotilla that came under attack. It contradicts the IDF report, and is quite revealing in a number of ways:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire
Ricardo your ignorance and arrogance appalls me.(again)
Be careful who you call ‘blind’…
News Agencies Call On Israel To Lift Media Blackout On Gaza Flotilla Attack
do your homework…
I also have to take the side of Israel in this situation. They are in a state of war with the regime in Gaza and it is not by their choice. The Gaza regime has left them no other option. I think some of you here are blind to the threats posed by Islamic terrorists and naive people bent on “helping” them by supplying aid that can be redirected toward military uses. I really don’t see a biblical angle here. Instead I see to nations at war. And only one of those nations avows itself to seek the total destruction of the other and that nation is NOT Israel. Whatever the shortcomings of Israel, and they are many, they pale in comparison to the issues on the other side. Zionism pales in comparison to Islamic Jihad when it comes to pure inhumanity. I am not a Zionist in any shape or form, but I cannot help but support the nation of Israel against the cruel Hamas regime in Gaza. The Palestinian people are their own worst enemies and I have been told this by Palestinians themselves. When people choose to follow butchers in the pursuit of their religious agenda, they reap the fire. And their naive co-conspirators will reap that same fire along with them.
I take no side except the side of those in Christ who have found themselves living in the middle of this mess.
John Piper wrote the best message i’ve read on what our reactions as Christians should be concerning the middle-east:
I would encourage other Christians to read the rest. It can be found here:
Issues Concerning the Middle-East
PJ, With regard to Palestinian Christians, you will find a lot of them on the West Bank. I sincerely doubt that you would find many in Gaza. Israel is not having a significant problem with the West Bank government at this point which is completely different from the Gaza regime. The Palestinians in Gaza are far more radicalized than those in the West Bank. I would really like to see some evidence that there is any significant Christian population in Gaza.
Ricardo,
Let’s use common sense shall we. The people with pipes, chairs, and knives were defending themselves due to the following:
A: They were ambushed at “night” from black helicopters
B: They were attacked in “International” waters
What would you expect them to do when people jump into your vessel in the middle of the night from helicopters?
Should they have offered them falafel?
More importantly this was in “international” waters. In case you don’t know you CAN’T just board a ship in international waters. That’s called “piracy”. If it were in “Israel’s” waters that would be different but it was NOT.
No my friend, this was done by Zionist in the government. Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism it has to do with “control” wrapped up in the guise of Judaism. Also, Judaism practiced today is “Talmudic” and is the oral traditions of men which Christ rebuked. Lastly, regardless of the above facts Christ IS the only way so even a sincere Jew who practices Judaism is still deceived.
Thank God however for the remnant of Christian Jews many of which are Sephardic.
Kyle
I would also remind all of you that this is all taking place in the context of two warring dominionist powers that are rapidly headed toward a nuclear holocaust. ANYTHING that rubs salt into that situation is not going to do anyone any good. The government of Egypt has opened its border with Gaza and is allowing aid to flow in. Those bent on providing aid to Gaza can now do so via Egypt. If they refuse that opportunity and instead choose a confrontation with Israel, that will be very telling as to their motives. When the nuclear warheads start flying, it won’t really matter who ends up getting the blame. The destruction and the suffering that ensues will make the current situation look like a picnic in comparison. When two people are in a fight to the death, only a fool rushes in to try to help one or the other. This situation is no different. These people are taking it on themselves to enter a warzone. The result is really quite predictable. And it won’t be the advancement of peace.
I just read it.
Israel flotilla attack: Egypt opens border with Gaza
…putting aside his hostility to Hamas, which has links to his political opponent, the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, ordered that the crossing be opened until further notice. The move is being seen as a response to increasing Arab anger at what is perceived as Egyptian complicity in the blockade.
The border normally only opens once a month for a few days.
An Egyptian security source told Reuters: “Egypt opened its border with the Gaza Strip to allow humanitarian and medical aid to enter. The border will remain open for an unlimited time.”
The UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-Moon, said that if Israel had heeded calls to lift the blockade earlier, the raid on the flotilla would not have happened.
The Free Gaza Movement, one of the organisers of the aid flotilla, said more ships have been sent to Gaza. Israel has repeatedly warned that the ships will be blocked.
Turkey today revealed that four of the people killed in the attack were its nationals.
PJ
“Maybe im misunderstanding you??”
Yes, I think you are. Orthodox Judaism doesn’t save. Biblical Christianity as first taught before the Law to Abraham does. It did Abraham then. And it will now, even today. The purpose of the Law of Righteousness being preached today is to awaken in all of us to our need for a change of life, our “old” self changed to the “newness of Life” found only in Christ Jesus; and in the case of Orthodox Judaism today, that “old” way of coming to God is to be disposed of in order for them too to enter into the Holy of Holies by a new and living way inaugurated through Christ :
Heb 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
Heb 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
Heb 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
About the USS Liberty, isn’t that the incident where the Israelis straffed that U.S. frigate in international waters some years ago off the coast of Israel?
I am not condoning what “national Israel” did. No, not in the least. I am not condoning the Islamic fundamental position that publically avows Muslims to completely destroy present day Israel, either. I don’t think any of you are?
I have been to Israel and I found Israelis to be just as hostile towards me and my Christianity as the Muslims, the Catholics and the E.O..
In this world we will have tribulations! We are to be of good cheer knowing Our King, Our Ruler, Our Shepherd and Messiah has already over come the world! It is for me now to come under His Authority and find my place in Him, here:
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands–
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
We would be foolish if we believed the Peace that must come will come by any other way than that way there as taught by that Jewish convert, Saul of Tarsus, Paul the Apostle!
Thanks Michael. Had a feeling i was misunderstanding you
Adam
“…I assume you have Zechariah 12-14 in mind here.”.
No, didn’t even think of those verses when posting above from Ezekiel. My point was more reformational and I was zeroing more in on Ezekiel’s word about “God tilling and sowing” His Word into my spirit, soul and body. No one gets out of this life alive thanks to Adam, not you Adam, but our first Adam! However, we do get out of here alive through the second Adam; He is not you, Adam!
Eze 36:9 For behold, I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown.
No one is “born again” by their own doing. We must be born again, though!
Peter wrote about it best, in my view, keeping in mind what Jesus told Nicodemus:
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I use to be a synergist. Now I am a converted synergist. I’m monergistic. Present day Israel would do well to stop helping God fulfill His Word to His Chosen and just enter that Sabbath Rest through Christ!
Heb 4:9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
If they did, you would not see in international waters what just occurred causing PJ to start this thread and us all chiming in on it in here!
Putting that aside my question still is out here. “What is natural Israel to do when the entire natural Islamic world is together avowing the total destruction of Israel in these days?”
It is one thing for the Islamic world to be poor and insignificant. But with the advent of crude oil and modern science, there are now many nations making millions of dollars a day so that they have plenty of money with which they can purchase and arm poor Palestinian boys inciting them to destroying national Israel.
My son, Hosea, is presently in Afghanistan. I speak to him almost every day. One thing I remind him of because he too is “born again” is verses such as these:
Psa 46:8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.
Psa 46:9 He makes wars cease to the end of the earth; he breaks the bow and shatters the spear; he burns the chariots with fire.
Psa 46:10 “Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”
Psa 46:11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Selah
and
Psa 72:1 Of Solomon. Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to the royal son!
Psa 72:2 May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice!
Psa 72:3 Let the mountains bear prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness!
Psa 72:4 May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the children of the needy, and crush the oppressor!
and
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith who blows the fire of coals and produces a weapon for its purpose. I have also created the ravager to destroy;
Isa 54:17 no weapon that is fashioned against you shall succeed, and you shall confute every tongue that rises against you in judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD and their vindication from me, declares the LORD.”
That is why I continually call Christians to pray these Words of King David:
1Ch 16:26 For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the LORD made the heavens.
1Ch 16:27 Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and joy are in his place.
1Ch 16:28 Ascribe to the LORD, O clans of the peoples, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength!
1Ch 16:29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering and come before him! Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness;
1Ch 16:30 tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.
1Ch 16:31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, “The LORD reigns!”
1Ch 16:32 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; let the field exult, and everything in it!
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth.
1Ch 16:34 Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever!
Interesting related story. Reading the denials is just sad
Israeli Officials And American Conservatives Claim ‘There Is No Humanitarian Crisis In Gaza’
I’d call that a crises.
Hi George.
When i said,
I was referring to both Palestinian and Israeli Christians (for obviously different reasons).
As far as evidence of Christians in Gaza, i can point u to a few items.
2009-12-21 23:32:48
Gaza Christians struggle to celebrate Christmas under Israeli siege
quote…
Below is a recorded prayer by a Palestinian/American missionary.
But you are actually taking the side of a secular “humanitarian aid” organization that is not Christian in any shape or form. That is what I object to. I believe this organization is just exactly what Israel says they are, a front for Hamas. And that is not because I always am in agreement with Israel, but in this case, I believe that they are very correct. This whole operation is not about relief aid at all, relief aid is just an excuse to attack the blockade. If this were a RESPONSIBLE CHRISTIAN relief organization like World Vision, I would completely support their efforts. But World Vision has more integrity than to proceed with this sort of circus. This whole affair is nothing but a Trojan Horse intended to lure in support for the terrorists and sadly it is finding success. Scripture is soundly on the side of legitimate God ordained government and the state of Israel is far more representative of that than Hamas is. This whole issue is not a religious one at all but a political one, which would indicate that we probably shouldn’t even being wasting our time on it here. Real humanitarian aid to Gaza will happen when Hamas allows it to happen which probably will be never. North Korea is another example. Would anyone around here support an “aid flotilla” attempting to run a South Korean blockade of North Korea? I doubt it. I think this support for the flotilla activists is just a knee jerk reaction to ill conceived support for Zionism among the Christian community.
I think there must be some clarity regarding Israel.
#1. After the 1st Diaspora the Jews brought with them the “traditions of men”. These oral traditions are known as the Babylonian Talmud which Rabbis readily admit is higher in sacredness than the Torah. Babylonian Talmudism is what Judaism is today.
#2. After the 2nd Diaspora Jews were spread out amongst the gentile nations and mixed with the populations. The present day Israeli can make no direct claim to the land of Palestine. The people we call “Jews” today are a racial mix of Ashkenazi (Majority) and Sephardic (Minority) These people have either NO Semitic blood (Khazars) to a high amount (Sephardic) of which none can be directly linked to Abraham.
#3. Jesus clearly stated that the Temple would utterly be destroyed and NO stone would remain standing. The Wailing Wall is NOT a remnant of the 2nd Temple. If it were then Jesus is a liar. The Wailing Wall is really Fort Antonia which was a Roman fort.
#4. The six pointed star of David is pagan. Nowhere is this symbol mentioned in the Torah for the Jews. The “blue” star of David is actually a replica of the symbol used by the Rothschild dynasty.
When you take these historical facts into account then you can understand how to deal with situations like the Flotilla Massacre. Your response to the Israeli Govt. should be no different then how Jesus confronted the Pharisees of his time.
The Evangelical Dispensationalist Schofield Bible Christians will have an utterly different response than you. These peoples ears have been dulled to the truth and blindly follow men like Hagee. They will call for all out war on the middle east in the name of Jesus. This is blasphemy.
Kyle
Can we look at this objectively?
Gaza is under the control of Hamas, a recognised terrorist organisation that seeks the destruction of Israel. Thousands of rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israel, killing civilians and creating mass terror in the affected areas. Israel has imposed a naval blockade on Gaza to prevent weapons being brought in.
These ships sailed from Cypress with the intention not of bringing aid, but of breaking the blockade. They were repeatedly told that they would not be permitted to go to Gaza, but could dock in Ashdod just 20 miles away, from where the cargo would be trucked to Gaza, after inspection. Why did the ships not accept this option.
Imagine pro-taliban sympathisers were planning to sail a flotilla of “aid ships” to Iraq? Do you think the US Navy would sit idly by and hope that there weren’t bombs hidden under the food? Of course not. We’d expect robust action to be taken.
So what else could Israel do?
Yes, the operation may have been badly planned, but 5 of the 6 ships were successfully diverted to Ashdod without casualties. I too have seen the videos of the descending soldiers being attacked by a violent mob. Is it any wonder that people were killed? I think it’s a miracle that so few died. There is ample evidence that some on the ship were Islamist radicals set on martyrdom. Sadly this is how it turned out.
Here’s a newer YouTube video apparently showing the soldiers being attacked before they board the boat:
I just want to answer a previous comment. Firstly the ships were warned by radio that they wouldn’t be allowed to go to Gaza. They would have known that a refusal to comply would have consequences – so they were definitely expecting to be boarded by the Israelis. Secondly, my understanding is that it is legal to intercept a ship in international waters in order to enforce a blockade or if that ship is suspected of carrying weapons.
Andrew,
What did you expect the flotilla members do when people jump out of helicopters in the middle of the night? Should they have offered them falafel?
Also, there was an American on one of those ships who was a victim of Israeli Terrorist on the USS liberty in 1967. You are aware of the USS Liberty incident?
Kyle
Proverbs 26: 17 Like one who takes a dog by the ears
Is he who passes by and meddles with strife not belonging to him.
Good discussion here. Here’s more wisdom from God’s Word. As disciples of Jesus we are to be peacemakers and preachers, not showing partiality. The Church is to bring prophetic warning to nations that oppress. But while doing, she should also discern the spirits, and the times. Humanistic national Israel is provoked more and more to take measures that are morally and ethically wrong, by morally and ethically evil jihadists. Both groups are shaking their fists in rebellion against the rule of the King. There is no peace down this road. It will eventually plunge the world into a final conflagration. We who are born from above must pray to speak and act wisely and redemptively, and be ready. I appreciate the Scripture and points that Micheal has posted.
Thanks Vicki…you made some very good points.
May i tell a little story?
My youngest son (soon to be 40) has 3 sons of his own. The oldest is now 18.
From the time they were walking no one in our family, including me…their own grandma, ever volunteered to watch them. In fact in my case i flat-out refused. Why? Because in their parent’s eyes, they could do no wrong.
In other words if something occurred in which one of these boys were involved, it was automatically the ‘other persons fault’… And God forbid you ever trying to say other-wise!
-Disruptive in school: it was the teachers fault.
-Fighting: the other kid started it…
-Talking back to their Sunday School teacher (cussing, bullying other kids, etc in class): they were being ‘persecuted’ by the SS teacher.
In these parent’s minds (my son being one) “everybody picked on their kids”
It goes without saying these kids have now grown up to be bully’s, disrespectful of any and everyone who dares to correct them. The two oldest have been taken to family court [by the school] on a number of occasions.
Enough said–you get the picture.
I love them, don’t get me wrong. BUT i also know what they are today is a direct result of their parents never taking the blinders off and seeing they could actually be in the wrong. And never allowing correction to be given from those who loved them.
This same blindness is what i see when the topic of Israel comes up in many Christian circles here in America. Doesn’t matter what questionable (or obviously wrong in some cases) actions the Israeli government takes–they are ‘always in the right’…its “the other” guys fault.
Like what the parents of my 3 grandsons have done over the years, those who have (and do) always think this way have done great harm to all parties involved, but also to the cause of Christ.
I have asked myself many times ‘why’ Christians do this. My only conclusion is they do so based on theology: dispensationalism, actually.
Even those who claim to not be theologically dispensationalist, have been around its teachings so long they apparently have no idea that the seeds of the doctrines found in its teachings, are deeply embedded within them.
I felt to share this because the Spirit brought it to mind this morning… Take from it what you will or just ignore it.
PJ, Those 3,000 Christians in Gaza compress around .7% of the total population of Gaza. They tell people publicly that they are well treated under the Hamas regime. But that is not what they tell people privately. The chance that they would ever see one iota of what is being transported on those boats is next to nill. Egypt has opened its border to humanitarian aid and the group operating the flotilla has announced that they will persist in their efforts anyway. That is precisely because, as one of the groups spokesperson said himself, this is not about humanitarian aid, it is about stopping the Israeli blockaid. The “aid group” is simply a front for Islamic terrorists and many of those supporting them are well meaning people who are being duped into buying into their underlying political agenda. Its that simple. The big gainers here will be Hamas and Al Quaeda because too many people in the West are not bright enough to figure out whos on first. And in the long run, that will bring more harm to the Christians living under Hamas tyranny than benefit.
PJ
well that just about covers it from my perspective and indeed what you shared there with Vicki which I couldn’t help but take personally myself is the reason why I made reference to Ezekiel 36 in my comments above.
Here’s the main oddity of the chapter that I was also thinking about and your little tale gives reason to post it too. Notice the glare of evil and the reason for His mercy? Isn’t it so true for each and every one of us then that we too should be counted among the City dwellers of New Jerusalem? As in the old so it is in the new that God chooses to save Whom He wills to save. I suppose there is a reason for my personal soul’s salvation, but I can attest, it ain’ts ’cause of me!:::>
Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.
Eze 36:32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.
Eze 36:33 “Thus says the Lord GOD: On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt.
Eze 36:34 And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by.
Eze 36:35 And they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’
Eze 36:36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the LORD; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it.
Eze 36:37 “Thus says the Lord GOD: This also I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for them: to increase their people like a flock.
Eze 36:38 Like the flock for sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts, so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”
What I can do in the face of evil is bow down and worship the Lord God Almighty! That is something you never will see the devils do, ever, not in your lifetime here on earth or in Heaven when you take your place among the City dwellers of New Jerusalem!
George, as i wrote above im not taking a side. My concern as a Christian is first for those brothers and sisters in Christ caught in the middle of this entire mess, both Palestinians and Jews; secondly as a person with a heart which can be touched by the suffering of all people (Christians or not), my concern is for those families, including children and the elderly, living in Gaza.
You say the humanitarian aid organizations are not Christan; well neither is the Israeli government
When i stated above that Christians in the west have done great harm to both parties when always exonerating one and blaming the other [group] automatically, and harm to the cause of Christ, i truly meant it.
Think about it.
“When i stated above that Christians in the west have done great harm to both parties when always exonerating one and blaming the other [group] automatically, and harm to the cause of Christ, i truly meant it.”
PJ, I assure you I am not taking this position either on the basis of theology OR “automatically”. I have NEVER been a dispensationalist and over the past few years I have moved away from any sort of support of Zionism. But the fact of the matter is that Gaza is controlled by Hamas who are a blatant proxy for Iran which is controlled by a mad man who would have made a fine ally for the Nazi’s had he been around back then. This guy is a major threat to the whole world, including, if not especially, Christians. Any support or PR that gets thrown in their direction is suicidal on our part. I have no problem with discussion of Israel’s mistreatment of and discrimination against Christians or even their excesses in abuse toward innocent non-Christian Palestinians, but it really makes me nervous when there is an appearance of support for what amounts to a suicidal PR stunt orchestrated by Hamas.
I’ve look at more of the videos of this incident and want to make another comment. In fact I want to ask a question: why are “peace activists” armed with clubs and attacking the Israeli soldiers? The answer, of course, is that a small number of the people on this boat were not “peace activists” but violent Islamist thugs who were happy to die for their cause.
The loss of any life is lamentable, and it may be that a night-time boarding was not the best way to intercept the boat, but nevertheless the way Israel has been portrayed as the bad guy in this deeply distresses me.
An account from American former Chief of Mission To Iraq, Edward Peck:
(i’ve posted the above clip and story below because it concerns American citizens on board the ships)
American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead
Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head
A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency.
Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. (ABC News)
Paul,
please forgive me?
I just noticed when reviewing the comments for the above thread on Israel that you posted to me some questions, “….Michael, if the Bible predicts that the nations will come against Israel in the last days, is it the job of Christians today to 1) try to prevent the biblical prophecy from coming about, 2) try to cause it, or 3) watch and pray, and share Jesus as the hope of the whole world?…”.
Paul, are we reasoning together with apples and apples or other fruit with apples?
When you ask, “if the Bible predicts that the nations will come against Israel in the last days….” “Which Israel are you speaking about”?
Are you speaking about the present nation of Israel, that came about after 1947 and the establishment of the debated charter in 1948, or are you speaking about “Israel” which comes from above and will exist forever the City of God as the Angel showed John, here:
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.
Do I believe the present day “natural” national Israel will provoke consternation by the world press reports and that evil device, the world press, will report the Truth falsely? Yes, it does appear national Israel might be going it alone in the coming semesters, days, months and years.
Do I believe that the Church will be surrounded by the world, the flesh and the devils and that the world, the flesh and the devils, wherever they find the Church functioning as a Royal Priesthood will surround Her and try to stamp Her Life out? Yes, that too is predictable according to Scripture.
As for the Church, I would answer yes then to all three of your questions.
As for national Israel, well, she does now exist and she certainly is becoming more of a proverbial stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, not like her Creator’s Son, Who is the True stumbling stone and rock of offense made without hands. So in answer to question number one, no. As for question number two, no. As for question number three, yes and no, depending on which side of the tracks you hail from, darkness or Light?
Thanks, George Mitchell, for that good post. That is the proper perspective, I think.
George, you are sure free to hold any position you want to….
but in this case i cannot.
You appear to be saying if one does not side with the Israeli governments actions that they have positioned themselves with Hamas:
I haven’t read that the aid flotilla was a Hamas project.
It sounds like what you’re saying is in the case of the Israeli government –either you stand with them (in their actions concerning Gaza) or you are against Israel. I’ll tell you George, i sure do not stand in agreement with everything our government has done over my lifetime, but it doesn’t mean im antiAmerica. Neither does my not voicing my support for the Israel government, mean im antiIsrael and ‘pro Hamas’.
Why do we as followers of Christ have to do more then love all people and seek to bring the gospel to all the lost?
When we as followers of Jesus choose up sides, in this instance between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza, we are (as i was reminded recently)
Love you brother George, but we just don’t see this the same way…
Earlier someone asked why some of the peace activists were armed with clubs, and suggested that this indicates they were violent Islamic thugs. Whether any of them had violent intentions from the beginning or not I don’t know, but this new testimony from a released Al Jazeera reporter states that they disconnected the metal railings from the ship and used them to try to fend off the incoming soldiers after they had already been fired upon with live ammunition (something not yet shown in any of the edited video footage):
Other similar testimonies can be seen here, all of which contradict the official IDF version of what happened:
[1] http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/reporter-disputes-israeli-account-of-raid/
[2] http://gazafreedommarch.org/cms/en/News/View/10-06-03/Mary_Hughes_Thompson_Free_Gaza_Co-Founder_Recounts_Flotilla_Nightmare_at_Sea.aspx
[3] http://gazafreedommarch.org/cms/en/News/View/10-06-04/EYEWITNESS_They_were_rough_-_activist_on_Gaza_aid_convoy.aspx
It’s hard to say what all we will learn in the coming days, and also what may never be substantiated with clear proof because of destroyed evidence. We may even learn dark details about the motives of some of those aboard the flotilla. I don’t know, but I do agree with PJ and others here that the tendency of so many Christians in this nation to “stand with Israel no matter what” is very much found wanting. I believe someone pointed out, either in this post or another, that we have the example of the Old Testament prophets whose love for the nation of Israel in ancient times manifested itself when necessary in rebuking national leaders for injustice and lack of compassion for the oppressed.
I wanted to leave a note for anyone who may have left comments (in the last 24 hours) with a number of embedded videos or what they believe is ‘proof’ concerning issues surrounding the incident which took place….
After realizing this post was quickly becoming a “my facts” verses “your facts” thread the wisest thing to do was hold back the comments which fall into that category, for it was never going anywhere; Actually it can’t for the ‘facts’ are disputed by both sides involved.
Adam is right,
(A word of caution; be careful where and/or who you get your facts from. Its no secret that certain media outlets have obvious political agendas.)
thanks guys…
Pj I have quietly read and prayed for all these days about the sad and shocking events taking place. God is not unaware and actually is the only one who holds the WHOLE TRUTH behind everything.
I want to thank you for your stance and comments to date, which you must have found quite unsettling, (I certainly have, just reading). Ultimately ‘nothing happens by chance’ and Israels rights & wrongs have been recorded since the beginning, and will be until the end. We are in exciting (albeit scary) days as we continue to witness ‘God’s story’ unfold.
You wisely councel us to be careful where and/or who we get our facts from………… God alone can be trusted with the facts, and he alone can be trusted with our lives.
I sincerely pray for His blessing upon you, and His wisdom to guide you, on this, your healthy, balanced blog my sister.
Amen.
You “read” me well sister.
Thank you for your prayers and continued support. It means more then you know…