Its no secret, my thoughts on politicians using Christianity (and in doing so, using Christ) as some type of personal tool by which to garner votes. It totally disgusts me. They are a “blight” upon the Church and as far as the Gospel is concerned, more times then not, nothing more then enemy’s of the Cross. All you need to do is watch and listen to the political ads these self-proclaiming ‘Christian’ candidates run on TV, to know contrary to their claims, they have not been led or inspired in their endeavor by God.
Forgive the musing….that is not what this post is about. But after watching one of these hypocritical ‘Christian’ candidates being interviewed by a Christian network this evening, (this) after viewing a number of horrible, disgraceful personal attack ads this person has been running, I just had to vent.
Moving on to the actual topic……
I thought this news item posted at Christian NewsWire was interesting:
Founding Fathers were Antichrists says New Film
While Glenn Beck and David Barton are shouting that conservatives need to take back America, a Christian filmmaker asks the question: take it back to what? A new documentary, “The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers” explores what the founders of the American Revolution really believed about Christianity, and the evidence is less than encouraging. If you’re a Christian, that is.
I checked out the website of Adullam Films, and also found the article concerning the film very interesting:
NEW RELEASE: ” THE HIDDEN FAITH OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS”
Over the summer, our ministry has been engaged in the production with a new documentary about the founding fathers of the United States, and what their “faith” really was. This work grew out of a chapter I had written for the book, “How to Overcome the Most Frightening Issues You Will Face this Century,” published by Tom Horn. Tom then decided to use a modified version of the chapter for the introduction of his next book, “Apollyon Rising 2012.” Soon after these books were released, we began to notice a deep concern about these issues among believers. I was invited to speak at a Prophecy Conference in Nashville, TN and could see how disturbed the audience was over some of the information I presented. Because of these things, I became convicted that this film is a much needed work; and we hope it will be a blessing for all who view it.
There have been a series of delays in finishing the work, primarily because some incredible information emerged concerning George Washington, the Jesuit Order, and the involvement of Rome in the War of Independence. Some of the details are shocking, and the proof undeniable, which you will see if you watch the film.
In this film, we confront the “Conservative Christian” view that the founders were somehow or other “Christians” who fought the American Revolution to establish the country based on the principles of the Bible. As this film shows clearly, the witness of history proves that the exact opposite was true.
Youtube appears to have a number of videos concerning this film. If interested in pouring over the list visit youtube and just type in “The Hidden Faith of Our Founding Fathers”
My initial reaction to Pinto’s statement (3rd paragraph)“It shows further how the United States was planned from the beginning to help launch a global society, the New World Order.”", was with a bit of skepticism. Upon reading the rest of the article though, I think he articulates pretty much my own thoughts about Christians trying to save America under a mixed banner of the Stars & Bars with a smattering of the cross of Jesus.
It seems to me that whenever one adds or takes on an extra descriptor to their adoption into the family of God ie; Conservative+Christian or American+Christian there’s a risk of the “Christian” aspect becoming diluted and an afterthought.
In view of the topic, I’m reminded of Jesus’ words from Luke 14…
I have a mixed view of this film. On the one hand, it seems to promote the sort of state church society represented by countries like England. It even seems to promote theocracy in a strange sort of way. This really bothers me. On the other hand, it thoroughly debunks the current mania in the conservative church of trying to portray the founders as being shining lights of Christianity which they were certainly not by any measure. I think the film is right on the mark by pointing out that the founding fathers where antichrist in the sense that they were promoting a sort of new age utopian vision that envisioned an unbiblical melting pot, not only of culture, but also of religion from which, indeed, a new world order would emerge. So while I am not too impressed with their conclusions, I am very impressed with what they are giving us to think about. And I do have to admit that it certainly seems that authentic Christianity thrives under the most brutal political regimes and ends up being suffocated under the most seemingly benign ones like our own.
To those who insists on calling America a Christian nation – Show us from the Holy scriptures the definition of a christian nation (book-NT, chapter and verse). Are there other nations on planet earth that fit into this christian nation meme? Can you please point to time and era when this nation was awash in righteousness? Knowing such a time and era will help in contrasting with the present. My own take: Is the US populated by people professing to be Christians? Yes. Does that make her a christian nation? Nope. This is what i believe as to the founding of any nation or emergence of any ruler:
“the Most High God rules the kingdom of mankind and sets over it whom he will” Daniel 5:21
Hi Yemi,
This is an important issue you have posed for us to consider. There are no scriptures suggesting any nation on earth is a “christian” nation. There is no such entity. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Isaiah 40:15-17 is clear about this.
Indeed the U.S.A. has Spiritually reborn believers living here, as there are throughout all nations on earth. Salvation is for individuals, not nations.
Good questions, Yemi. There is indeed a Biblical definition of a Christian nation, but it clearly can’t be a description of any political nation, past or present. Without doubt, it describes a nation without geographical borders, i.e. the body of Christ. If we compare what was spoken by Moses to “the people of Israel” (Exodus 19:3) to what has been spoken to the Church through Peter, the parallel language is unmistakable, and I have letter-coded the parallels (A, B, and C):
With this, there should be no question that the Church is chosen for the same purpose that the nation of Israel was once chosen. This makes sense because the Church is Israel (i.e. we are “the Israel of God,” as Paul used the term in Galatians 6:16, as he also pointed out in Romans 9:6-8, etc.).
Likewise, Psalm 33:12 can not be a description of any political nation today, though some leaders try to apply it to the United States: “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom He has chosen as His heritage!” If we belong to Christ, we are part of such a nation even if the United States (or any other nation) was to split into 10 parts or even cease to exist.
Adam, The way you have described *the* Christian Nation is *exactly* what many if not most “Christians” don’t get. It is almost a parallel of the way that Jews were reading the prophecies of Jesus. Just as they were looking for an “earthly” fulfillment of the heavenly Jesus, so Christians today are looking for an earthly fulfillment of the heavenly Jerusalem.
Hi Adam Minneapolis, That concept of a christian nation I do not object to. I’m in total agreement. This “christian nation” has no geographical boundary.
Haven’t we always known Washington was a freemason, therefore certainly antichrist?
http://watch.pair.com/GW.html
AMEN!!
I wanted to pipe in here and say that I have not seen this film but I wanted to give you guys a little background on the filmmaker. It’s nice to hear that people bringing some truth to light in this matter of the founding Fathers being “Christian” just be aware that Chris Pinto, the guy who made this film is heavy into the Conspiracy theory worldview. He is very chummy with the conspiracy theory crowd, Jessie Ventura, the Future Quake show and Alex Jones etc. There is an article on the films webpage explaining how Christians need to be aware of these conspiracies. I think there is an inkling of truth in that thinking but with this gang there seems to be a Jesuit or Mason under every rock, so just be aware.
I think that in regards to the conspiracy theory issue you are making an excellent point. I do however believe in one particular conspiracy theory, the one which alleges that the devil is involved in a hidden conspiracy against God and His Church
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Adam claims the Church is Israel? Might find these links helpful:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/replacement.html
http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/thomas-ice/israel-church-distinction-the-4th-foundation.html
ntmyhm, you might find this excellent teaching by Steve Lumbley helpful. Its totally based upon scripture (only) and not on any specific author’s theological viewpoint:
Who is Israel?
Interesting. The first link does not even cite a New Testament reference. The second falsely states that we believe that Gal 3.29 teaches that the believers are the seed. What we DO believe is exactly what Gal 3.29 CLEARLY teaches, which is that the “seed” was ALWAYS a reference to Christ, NOT Israel and NOT the CHURCH. As for the church being Israel the Bible itself teaches just that over and over:
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. – Romans 9.3-13
“They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” If this is not clear that Israel in God’s eyes is NOT a physical nation but a spiritual one, I don’t know what could be. In this scripture Paul is CLEARLY likening the Jews to Esau and the Christians to Jacob.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. – Ephesians 2.8-13
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world” In this scripture Paul is clearly speaking to Gentile Christians and noting that in the past they were “aliens from the commonwealth of Israel”, implying that they are now no longer aliens, but citizens. Thus, we again see Paul identifying the church as being Israel.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. – Hebrews 8.8-13
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah” The New Covenant is with the Church and certainly not with the unbelieving Jews who reside in physical Israel. Yet again Paul identifies Israel with the Church and NOT with physical Israel. Indeed, he identifies Judah with the Church as well.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. – Romans 11-25-27
The above scripture is a key to the mystery. Israel was the spiritual Church of the Old Testament. The Christians, BOTH Jew and Gentile, are the Israel of the New Testament. Old Testament Israel has become blinded so that New Testament Israel can be added to the people of God (Just as Old Testament Gentiles were blinded so that Old Testament Israel could be redeemed). Once New Testament Israel is FULLY added, then the end shall come and ALL Israel shall be saved. The reality is that BOTH Old Testament Israel (consisting mainly but not exclusively of Jews) and New Testament Israel (consisting mainly but not exclusively of Gentiles) were spiritual nations. The PHYSICAL nation of Israel was only a shadow of the spiritual nation and its members were not one and the same with the spiritual nation which it represented.
The whole concept of “Replacement Theology” is absurd. We are teaching precisely what the scriptures teach AND what the Church Fathers taught. If their is replacement theology, it is that which is being taught by those who would replace the Israel of God with the apostate nation of Israel which to this day rejects the true salvation of God.
Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed? – Justin Martyr – Dialogue with Trypho – Chapter CXXIII – Ridiculous Interpretations of the Jews – AD 110-165
Here we have Justin Martyr who sat a the very feet of the Apostles rebuking the Jews for not acknowledging the Church as being Israel. And ALL of the promises of God were ONLY EVER to SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, NOT to physical Israel.
More from Justin Martyr:
Accordingly the name Israel signifies this, A man who overcomes power; for Isra is a man overcoming, and El is power. And that Christ would act so when He became man was foretold by the mystery of Jacob’s wrestling with Him who appeared to him, in that He ministered to the will of the Father, yet nevertheless is God, in that He is the first-begotten of all creatures. For when He became man, as I previously remarked, the devil came to Him—i.e., that power which is called the serpent and Satan—tempting Him, and striving to effect His downfall by asking Him to worship him. But He destroyed and overthrew the devil, having proved him to be wicked, in that he asked to be worshipped as God, contrary to the Scripture; who is an apostate from the will of God. For He answers him, ‘It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and
Him only shall thou serve.’ Then, overcome and convicted, the devil departed at that time. But since our Christ was to be numbed, i.e., by pain and experience of suffering, He made a previous intimation of this by touching Jacob’s thigh, and causing it to shrink. But Israel was His name from the beginning, to which He altered the name of the blessed Jacob when He blessed him with His own name, proclaiming thereby that all who through Him have fled for refuge to the Father, constitute the blessed Israel. But you, having understood none of this, and not being prepared to understand, since you are the children of Jacob after the fleshly seed, expect that you shall be assuredly saved. But that you deceive yourselves in such matters, I have proved by many words.
“And when Scripture says, ‘I am the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, who have made known Israel your King,’ will you not understand that truly Christ is the everlasting King? For you are aware that Jacob the son of Isaac was never a king. And therefore Scripture again, explaining to us, says what king is meant by Jacob and Israel: ‘Jacob is my Servant, I will uphold Him; and Israel is mine Elect, my soul shall receive Him. I have given Him my Spirit; and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, and His voice shall not be heard without. The bruised reed He shall not break, and the smoking flax He shall not quench, until He shall bring forth judgment to victory. He shall shine, and shall not be broken, until He set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.’ Then is it Jacob the patriarch in whom the Gentiles and yourselves shall trust? or is it not Christ? As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race.
This is the TRUE teaching of the Church. The above are just a few of many references. Sadly the church today is largely an apostate church that has left the truth and the teaching of the historic church and is twisting the Word of God in order to teach things that it never intended. Lord have mercy.
ntmyhm,
I took a look at both of the links you recommended. The “Deception in the Church” article deals more with those who apply promises given to ancient Israel to America than it does with those who apply these promises to the body of Christ. I was surprised that it went that direction. The “Berean Watchmen” article openly promotes classic dispensationalism and the concept that there are two peoples of God rather than one, and also advocates for the pre-tribulation rapture position (another can of worms).
I don’t know how much you’ve browsed around this site (PJ’s site here), but there are a number of excellent posts which deal with the subject of Israel and the Church, and with the claims of dispensationalism in particular.
Regarding Galatians 6:16, and Paul’s use of the phrase “the Israel of God” in that verse, I highly recommend this 2004 article by Michael Marlowe:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/gal6-16.html
Among other things, I believe he did a great job analyzing the implications of concluding that Paul was referring to only a subset of the Church, i.e. ethnic Jewish believers. He shows how the dispensationalist distinction between Israel and the Church breaks down if this conclusion is held to, how C.I. Scofield was inconsistent in his doctrine, how this interpretation does not resonate with Paul’s teaching that in Christ there is no (distinction between) Jew or Gentile, etc.
You might also enjoy and/or be challenged by a discussion I hosted on Facebook a couple of months ago, centered around the question of who are God’s chosen people, for what purpose they are chosen, and how many peoples God has. That discussion has been reproduced here:
http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/who-are-gods-chosen-people-and-why-are-they-chosen/