I’ve been out of the loop for a few days, so I am just going to touch on a few points randomly.

Thank you for the link to the article about flat-earthers. It was informative. But I hope you see that it doesn’t change anything. Clearly, Christians up until (and sadly long after) Galileo were geocentrists. The real issue is this: using your preferred hermeneutic, what does the Bible teach about flat earth/spherical earth and geocentricity vs heliocentricity. Be honest! The church was so adamant about the Bible teaching geocentricity that it tried and excommunicated Galileo as a heretic. Most 
Christians refused to even consider the evidence Galileo and Keplar and others offered. For hundreds of years they refused! So, despite the fact that we all know better now, you must agree that the church’s preferred way of reading the scriptures stood in the way of the progress of truth. We did it once before. My friend, I assure you, we are doing it again!

It is true that I do not believe the scriptures to be inerrant. Who does? If inerrant means free from error, we all know that the Bible does not fit the bill. Perhaps the foremost defender of inerrancy today is John Piper. Piper readily admits to “hundreds” of discrepancies in the Bible, many that, he confesses, he has no hope of clearing up this side of heaven! What does “inerrancy” mean to you? If you read carefully the words of Packer when he talks and writes about the Chicago Statement (which he is said to have crafted practically single-handedly) you will see so much hedging and double-speak that it becomes clear not even Packer can seriously defend inerrancy. (If you’d like a list of contradictions, blatant scientific errors, and other discrepancies, I could forward them to you. But I think you could create your own list.)

You don’t know how much I dislike having to speak this way about the Bible. It sounds like I’m attacking the Scriptures. The truth is, I am trying to get people to think more clearly about what we have in the Bible, and not accept the pablum cliches and simplistic formulas. If the Bible is not free from errors, why pretend it is? Isn’t it better to deal honestly with what we actually have?

I hold the Scriptures in very high honor! I love the Bible! I’ve studied it all my life, and I have not slowed down. I consider it authoritative, and infallible (in the sense that it will not lead us into error in matters of faith and practice when read properly). But I find it completely pointless to use language like “inerrant” which is patently indefensible.

Again, the point I was trying to make has nothing to do with inerrancy, and I should not have used the word. It has to do with the proper reading of Scripture (typically literal verses allegorical, etc.). When read in its historical/cultural context, recognizing that it is not a science textbook, it does not conflict with the findings of good science.

No Christian will argue with you about the relative importance of salvation versus the age of the cosmos. However, if you will listen carefully, and pay attention to our culture, you will find that young Christians are abandoning the faith at very alarming rates. And it many, if not most cases, they are coming up against a false dilemma forced upon them by the insistence of their church teachers upon a worldview that is at odds with what they are clearly learning to be the truth in their science classes. You can study the atonement and salvation every day the rest of you life. But if we do not address the growing divide between traditional conservative Christianity and the rapidly growing sciences, the study of salvation may become a moot point in our culture. I may sound like an alarmist, but I honestly do not believe I have overstated the case. The statistics are indeed alarming!

Since John-the-Baptist came before the Lord; it seems we may be poised on the arrival of the man-child ministry soon; spoken about in Revelation 12. The man-child ministry is being prepared to teach the woman in the wilderness for first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation.

God’s people never escaped tribulation when they needed it (I’m not talking about God’s wrath); especially when God used it to bring them to repentance. God is the same today, yesterday and forever.

Steve put together an excellent presentation…(God bless him.)

The seed sowing pitch always shows up, doesn’t it..

Guess Todd’s not able to get along on the gold and precious gems, his ‘Angels’ have bestowed upon him. (forgive the sarcasm)

Excellent post! Thanks for keeping this out there and addressing another angle to this “revival”!

Phil

‘If and when’ Churches ever have this taken away, i will believe God is behind it.

There is so much which bothers me about what is transpiring at this revival; but the Angel fixation is at the top of the list.

I know God’s Angels are ministering spirits…and, i have no doubt that God, on occasion, (for a purpose) has ‘lifted the shade” which separates the natural from the spirit realm, allowing someone to ’see’ (an Angel….or in fact a demon!) but its not an every day happening.

I have a theory as to why God does not do this, but rarely:

Its because of such things as we are seeing in the ministries of Todd Bentley and those he closely associates with: A fixation on Angels, ….to the point of becoming obsessed.

This is one very good reason why i do not believe these are Angels of God which are appearing to these people–if in fact they are being truthful about their experiences.

EVERYTHING should be about Christ….and ‘anything’ spiritual which appears should always be pointing to Christ, if in fact it is of God.

I don’t see that in these video’s where Todd relates his ‘Angel’ stories.

What he balks at in this are the donor and speaker lists asked for. That’s quite different and unusual.

Some other folks are seeing it that way as well, and folks quite different in emphasis from KC.
http://www.southernappeal.org/index.php/archives/2613
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=26970

Is there a coverall scripture? There are other scriptures which indicate a different handling. As a matter of fact, KC has quoted the render to Cesar what is his and to God what is his. He considers the financial information to be Cesar’s and complied on that, but the donor and speaker lists to be God’s.

Maybe looking at these articles in the sites above will illustrate the genuine issue on that later point. These folks sent letters, there have been a number of them, to Sen. Grassley. That’s a strong step. There’s a real concern here.

Christianity Today, hardly a WOF ministry, has several articles voicing concerns over the handling and scope of this, one entitled “Oversight Overstep.”

ty

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

“..without love, the utilization or manifestation of spiritual gifts is tantamount to a loud gong being played. It effects you but in a wrong, very negative way.”

I believe the Lord showed me today, why we cringe [inside] or know something is ‘off’ when seeing false manifestations….