This is an outstanding message written by J. C. Wenger, published in the Gospel Herald, March 15, 1966

BibleViews:

Part of the vision which captured the hearts and minds of the original Anabaptists of Zurich, Switzerland, some four centuries ago was the separation of church and state.

This meant among other things that the founders of our brotherhood held that the church ought to be wholly detached from the state. The Gospel should be preached “freely,” not under the control or even protection of the state, for the state ought not to take a position of favoring one faith and suppressing or persecuting the adherents of other views. Church and state were to be utterly separate in personnel, means of entrance, function, means, and end. The church was to be made up of the converted and committed disciples of the Lord Jesus, while the state served all men by maintaining law and order. The state is entered by the natural birth, but the church by the new birth. The state employs law and the threat of force, while the church relies on the power of the Word of God and the Spirit of God.

It is the function of the church to proclaim the Word of God, to win the lost to Christ, and to nurture those who turn to Him. It is the function of the state to restrain evildoers and to assume some responsibility for what might be called the “natural life” of its citizens. The only sanction of the church beyond brotherly rebuke is the excommunication of the impenitent, while the state has weapons to curb the criminal, and may deprive him of his liberty. The head of the state is a mere man, while the Head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ. One corollary of this doctrine of separation of church and state is that the state as state has no voice in the control and direction of the church. The church must heed its own Head, Christ, and obey His Word, the sacred Scriptures.

The other corollary is a twofold one: (1) the church can not ask the state to turn aside from its role of promoting public order by demanding that it follow the ethic of the church; and (2) the church is nevertheless responsible to uphold before all men the will of God that men should live by love, and that justice should be administered in all human relationships. This first half of the second corollary means that for nonresistant Christians, any office in the state which involves the use of violence and the possibility of taking human life (constabulary, military, and magistracy-for the death penalty is sometimes imposed by judges) is not a possible option. Mennonites, have therefore historically felt unable to serve in those three areas, as police officers, as soldiers, and as judges who must administer the laws of the land, and who must even send criminals to the gallows.

The second half of the second corollary is the difficult one to apply in a modern democracy. Surely the church needs more than ever to give its witness against every form of injustice, whether it be against the maltreatment of the poor by the rich or the maltreatment of minorities by the majority. It is in proper order for individual Christians, for congregations, and for conferences to speak out in favor of justice and against all unrighteousness. This obligation is clear, and increasingly in recent decades our brotherhood has sought to be faithful in this area, especially through the General Conference.

Something else needs to be said at present, however, and it needs to be said clearly and emphatically. The central function of the church of Christ is not merely to try to abolish all forms of evil and injustice. The most basic function of the church is to proclaim the everlasting Gospel to the salvation of men and their gathering into the blessed fold of the redeemed. Our supreme guide here is the teaching and example of our Lord and His apostles. First-century Christianity was dynamic; it began an amazing transformation of human society-a transformation which turned the world right side up: but it did so not by political methods but by the faithful proclamation of the Word of God.

Many citizens cannot do any more than employ political methods, but the people of God can. They can use the radio and the pulpit; they can establish Sunday schools and mission stations; they can and must fulfill the function which only the church can fulfill. That function is to make Christ known. And as men come to know Christ, they will in turn be transformed.

Society surely needs to be regenerated. But the regeneration it most needs can never be achieved by passing laws and taking political action. The only regeneration which will ever truly change men is individual regeneration. Christ’s primary message today is therefore, LET THE CHURCH BE THE CHURCH!

*also see: Best thing that could happen to Churches would be to lose the 501(c)3 tax-exempt status

Just when I think I’ve seen it all, this comes my way. Do these people really believe this oil can give people ‘third heaven visions, or is it just a marketing gimmick? Either way, neither the Holy Spirit or the anointing of God are commodities which can be packaged and sold.

ElijahShopper:

Third Heaven Vision Anointing oil is made with six ingredients from around the world: Calamus, Cassia, Frankincense, Myrrh, Rose of Sharon, and Spikenard - in a base of virgin olive oil. Each fragrance was chosen from different nations and was individually prayed over and sanctified for the work of the Lord. May you have “third heaven” visions!

From the bio of the guy who came up with this oil:

Many prophetic people seem get their greatest revelations from the Lord while they are around or near flowing water. Tom had been blending fragrances for several years when one day while he was in the shower, what seemed like a lightning bolt from God’s Glory came down upon him and the voice of the Holy Spirit began to speak to him about what to call His oil. Tom was caught up in a stream of God’s manifest Glory (as an open vision), and he began to tremble vigorously under the power of the Lord. After the shaking stopped, excitedly, he ran into the kitchen to tell his wife that the Holy Spirit had told him to name His anointing oil “Third Heaven Vision”.

A few days later, Tom and Candace mentioned to Steve Shultz that the voice of the Holy Spirit had directed Tom to make anointing oil, and that He had just given Tom the name for the oil. Steve said to bring some oil with them when they met him for lunch after church that week.

Tom’s wife, Candace, had been a volunteer for the Elijah List from it’s very inception. She was the first Elijah List webmaster and also connected Steve with Patricia King for the First Annual Elijah List Conference (The Kingly Anointing). Because of this longstanding relationship, Steve decided to sell the oil.

Each time Tom blends a batch of oil, a strong presence of the Lord’s Glory comes upon him and he trembles vigorously (“vibrating all over the place,” his wife would say!) Also, on various occasions when Tom has put full boxes (144 bottles) of the anointing oil in the hands of two separate strong intercessors, they have both been hit by the anointing and power of the Lord, nearly falling to the ground.

Many intercessory prayer warriors who use “Third Heaven Vision” anointing oil mention that the oil has a strong breaker anointing upon it….

Posted at, The Red Sky Warning, written by Bryan Hupperts

In early 1991 I was listening to a tape by Paul Cain describing how God changed his body chemistry so he would not desire women. Most took this as a call to celibacy. I was disturbed by his phrasing and began to pray over what he said and finally got a definite warning from the Holy Spirit: This man is unclean. Stay away form him.

With my Foursquare/Vineyard background, you can imagine how well this went over with pastors and saints who wondered why I refused to jump into “the river.” I was put out of ministry, given the left foot of fellowship on several occasions for touching God’s Anointed. My motives and character were continually attacked. Finally, Paul was outed as an alcoholic and homosexual. God’s warning came true.

In 1999 I was given a vision of a flowing river. Upstream, many prophets were urinating and defecating into this river and the unsuspecting saints down the way were dipping their silver cups of salvation into this river and gagging on the disgusting human waste and impurities.

The pastor of the inde. charismatic church I attended at the time ripped me to shreds, slandered me, and so on. He and his associate had a gift for planting rumors, some of which shadow me even today. At the time, I didn’t make the connection but this local church had the word River in their title and I think they may have taken it personally. Yes, they were a “river” church, too. Take a hard look at the state of the prostituted prophetic movement. Even their leaders will admit that most of what is called prophetic ministry simply isn’t. I believe this word has come true.

Before the outbreak of the Iraq war, based on things the Holy Spirit had warned me about, I wrote Pres. Bush an open letter warning him of the debacle to come. I quoted news headlines 2 and 3 years before they were written and pleaded with him not to take this foolish course of action. You can imagine how the republican saints in my church came unglued. People were screaming at me, calling me a liberal and a traitor. Still, every word came true.

I write these things because there are many false prophets in the world. Kim Clement is a great example. False word after false word, and the hits just keep coming. Yet, like dogs to their vomit (yes, that’s in Proverbs) saints keep running back to him (and others like him) for “words from the Lord.” Further, they regularly revile those with accurate prophetic track records. I was grieved over this for years until the Holy Spirit whispered, “It’s because they do not love the Truth.” If they truly loved the Truth they would love those who share the Truth as well as the God of Truth.

That was eye-opening.

I was visited by God powerfully during a Rodney Howard Brown meeting in the 90s. God did a work in me that remains. I saw others in the same meetings get weirder and weirder until they are no longer orthodox Christians. It’s all angels and jewels and gold dust. One wind of doctrine after the next. Spirituality seems to be measured in how bizarre you can behave.

I suspect what is happening is that God is giving people their hearts desire - whatever that desire is. If they seek for God with all of their heart, it is God they get. If it is something else they desire, they are getting that, too. It is a scary reality that God promises to give those who do not love the Truth over to delusion so that they will believe lies. See 2 Thessalonians 2:11

I believe the Lakeland Outpouring is a winnowing field, a place of separation between wheat and chaff, the sheep and the goats. 2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

If there is no sound doctrine, there is no love of the Truth. I believe the wheat is being separated to be gathered into the Father’s barns while the chaff is being separated and gathered together to be burned in the unquenchable fire.

Be careful what you love, for God will answer you according to all that is truly in your heart. Ezekiel 14:7 “‘When any Israelite or any alien living in Israel separates himself from me and sets up idols in his heart and puts a wicked stumbling-block before his face and then goes to a prophet to enquire of me, I the LORD will answer him myself.”

Unless you love the Truth, God will give you over to the idols of your heart.

It was reported earlier this week that Hagee was to meet with William Donohue, president of the Catholic League after making his apology in a letter; (story here) Well, it would appear they did meet Thursday.

After reading about the meeting, I’m coming around to the belief that John Hagee would sell one of his own children if it meant getting another organization to partner up with him in supporting Political Israel. That may sound like a harsh statement, but I don’t think its far from the truth: how could it be when its now apparent he is willing to forsake doctrine for unity. He worships at the altar of CUFI.

From Inside Catholic:

The conversation lasted about 45 minutes — Hagee had to get back to the UN for his evening speech. During that time Hagee and Donohue affirmed their not only the reconciliation but also their future partnership on matters of importance to both them: life, marriage, family, and support for Israel.

Donohue said, “Pastor, you are my friend from this point forward and nothing’s going to change that. We have our theological differences but we Catholics and Evangelicals need to work together — that is the liberals worse nightmare.”

The Hagees couldn’t have agreed more with Donohue, and they talked at length about getting more Catholic support for Christians United for Israel. (full story here)

Everyone knows what a Chameleon is: a lizard..the ones with big eyeballs. But there is another definition for the word as well:

a) person given to often expedient or facile change in ideas or character. b) one that is subject to quick or frequent change especially in appearance. Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

That word, Chameleon, came to me when reading this interesting post at Available Light online: Has Todd’s Voice Changed?

While watching so many of the video’s of Todd Bentley recently–from some years ago on up to the present, I had noticed this too, but believed it was my imagination…So you can understand why this post caught my attention. I recall last week when hearing him speak with what I perceived as a weird-type southern accent, stopping and thinking; ‘Didn’t this guy grow up and live in Canada?’ (Living in KY, and having family from even deeper south, I know a real southern accent when I hear it.)

Another reason this post got my attention is because I know someone who does the same thing: takes on the accent and personality of the person or people they are around. I’ve known them all their life and noticed it when they grew into an adult (the person is 37 now)…This person I know is a very successful salesmen in his field..can ‘talk’ to anyone! He’s also a Christian who has been troubled for years with familiar spirits. I know this first-hand because he has come to me for spiritual counseling.

I’m not going anywhere specific with this post–just musing ‘outloud’…for now.

In the last few years, this lesson is one I have learned well: the lesson of knowing regardless of outward uncontrollable  circumstances, God will provide for our necessities, and that indeed is a ‘miracle of just enough’.

Micey has written a lovely testimony concerning this ‘miracle’ at her blog today: Blessed! The Miracle of Just Enough

Quote of the day:

(while speaking of Ezekiel 1:15-21)

“Yes, UFO’s wheels within wheels, fire and smoke, and yes, of course Ezekiel is discussing UFO’s. Angels, both holy and fallen are flying around our world in spaceships from a planet called Heaven and they come to our Earth in mechanical ships of high technology”

Who said that? (and no…it wasn’t Todd Bentley)

Go here to learn who made that bizarre observation

“For your Heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things” Matthew 6:32

Though spoken originally by Jesus regarding temporal things, this may be taken as a motto for the child of God amid all the changing vicissitudes of his changing history. How it should lull all misgivings; silence all murmurings; lead to lowly, unquestioning submissiveness—”My Heavenly Father knows that I have need of all these things.”

From, The Words of Jesus devotional, by John MacDuff

ApologeticsIndex has a few thoughts on the topic of seed sowing:

Todd Bentley / Fresh Fire Ministries — Money: Sowing Seed

On his Fresh Fire Ministries website Bentley refer to his Lakeland, Florida, meetings as “The Florida Outpouring.”

Indeed, the website even provides “The Florida Outpouring Desktop Wallpaper.”

As noted, the website also allows you to “Sow Seed Into Revival.” Er, ’seed’ is money, of course. You can become a “Harvester Partner” ($30 min/month for a minimum 12 consecutive months or one time gift of $360 per year), a “Kingdom Builder” ($80 min/month for a minimum 12 consecutive months or one time gift of $1000 per year), or a “Global Fire Partner” ($500 min/month for a minimum 12 consecutive months or one time gift of $5000 per year).

To put this in perspective, the Lakeland Center arena is charging Fresh Fire Ministries $15,000 a day. Currently the facility has been booked through May 25th, 2008.

While few ministries can work without financial resources, the ’seed sowing’ terminology will remind lots of people of the ‘Seed Faith Offering‘ sales pitches associated with the Word-Faith movement’s Prosperity scam.

That said, a news report notes that while an offering is taken, no admission fees are charged for the Lakeland events. We should hope so. Freely you have received, freely give. (Matthew 10:8).

However, when you ‘partner’ with Fresh Fire Ministries, you just get a little bit more…

When you become a partner with Fresh Fire Ministries you also receive several practical benefits which include:

Discounts on selected Todd Bentley products

Discounts on FFM conference registration

Partner Only sessions at our conferences – impartation services

Invitation to Partner Only conferences

Audio teaching of the month called “Deep Thoughts”

Fresh Fire’s Deep Thoughts sessions are brand new this year, recorded live here in our office with Todd and his interns, or staff. Each session is an up close and personal deep sharing time that will help you gain more spiritual insight. And receiving this CD every month is just one more reason to partner with FFM!
- Source: Fresh Fire Ministries, Partnership Last accessed, May 15, 2008

This reeks of selling (alleged) spiritual benefits.

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I will say Bentley’s ministry isn’t doing anything more or less then those like the Benny Hinn ministry, which basically offers the same type things:Partner Only sessions at our conferences, etc etc, …of course at Todd’s Partner Only sessions, included is a personal impartation. (Lord help us!) Anyway, I view all these type of “ministries” as businesses or corporations with something to ’sell’

• What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9

• Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 2 Corinthians 11

• Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Matthew 10

• And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2

• …make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. John 2

This prophecy has been on my mind today. I posted it on the blog last year, so went digging around in old posts searching for it.  After re-reading it, I see now why it came to mind today–it primarily deals with last day deception and judgment.

I want to post a few quotes from it, but if interested you can read it all HERE; Of course, as with any prophecy, use your own God given discernment when reading…

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“…Listen to the messengers, but do not hold men’s persons in admiration. For many whom I shall anoint mightily, with signs and miracles, shall become lifted up and shall fall by the wayside. I do not this willingly; I have made provision that they might stand. I call many into this ministry, and equip them; but remember that many shall fall. They shall be like bright lights, and the people shall delight in them. But they shall be taken over by deceiving spirits and shall lead many of My people astray.”

“…Hearken diligently concerning these things, for in the last days shall come seducing spirits that shall turn many of My anointed ones away.”

“Many shall come with seducing spirits and hold out lustful enticements. You will find that after I have visited My people again, the way shall become more and more narrow, and fewer shall walk there in. But be not deceived, the ways of righteousness are My ways. For though Satan come as an angel of light hearken not to him; for those who perform miracles and speak not righteousness are not of Me.”

“I warn you to search the Scriptures diligently these last days.

For the things that are written shall indeed be made manifest. There shall come deceivers among My people in increasing numbers, who shall speak forth the truth and shall gain the favor of the people. For the people shall examine the Scriptures and say, “What these men say is true.” Then when they have gained the hearts of the people, then and ONLY THEN shall they bring out these wrong doctrines. Therefore, I say that you should not give your hearts to men, nor hold people’s persons in admiration. For by these very persons shall Satan enter into My people.”

“Watch for seducers! Do you think a seducer will brandish a new heresy and flaunt it before the people? He will speak the words of righteousness and truth, and will appear as a minister of light, declaring the Word. The people’s hearts shall be won. THEN when the hearts are won, they will bring out their doctrines, and the people shall be deceived.

The people shall say, “Did he not speak thus and thus? And did we not examine it from the Word? Therefore he is a minister of righteousness. This that he has now spoken we do not see in the Word, but it must be right, for the other things he spoke were true.”

“Be not deceived. For the deceiver will first work to gain the hearts of many, and then shall bring forth his insidious doctrines.”

“Fear not, for I have warned you. Many will be deceived. But if you walk in holiness and uprightness before the Lord, your eyes shall be open and the Lord will protect you. If you will constantly look unto the Lord you will know when the doctrine changes, and will not be brought into it. If your heart is right I will keep you; and if you will look constantly to Me I will uphold you.”

“The minister of righteousness shall be on this wise — his life shall agree with the Word, and his lips shall give forth that which is wholly true, and it will be no mixture.”

“Take heed to yourselves and follow not the seducing spirits that are already manifesting themselves.

Diligently inquire of Me when you hear something that you have not seen in the Word, and do not hold people’s persons in admiration, for it is by this very method that Satan will hold many of My people.”

“Fear not the days to come, but fear this only, that you shall walk in a manner pleasing to the Lord.”

Good message this month at The Old Time Gospel Ministry.

“And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple…” Luke 2:25-35

Very little is written about this great man of God named Simeon, but I believe he is without a doubt a type and shadow of what the end time Church must be.

There are four major qualities about this man of God that stand out as essential for the last day Church, they are as follows:

• He was a just and devout man.

• He was watching for the coming of the Lord.

• He was full of the Holy Ghost.

• He was resting on the promise of God.

Matthew Henry in his Bible Commentary writes:

(1.) That he was just and devout, just towards men and devout towards God; these two must always go together, and each will befriend the other, but neither will atone for the defect of the other.

(2.) That he waited for the consolation of Israel, that is, for the coming of the Messiah, in whom alone the nation of Israel, that was now miserably harassed and oppressed, would find consolation. Christ is not only the author of his people’s comfort, but the matter and ground of it, the consolation of Israel. He was long a coming, and they who believed he would come continued waiting, desiring his coming, and hoping for it with patience; I had almost said, with some degree of impatience waiting till it came. He understood by books, as Daniel, that the time was at hand, and therefore was now more than ever big with expectation of it. The unbelieving Jews, who still expect that which is already come, use it as an oath, or solemn protestation, As ever I hope to see the consolation of Israel, so and so it is. Note, The consolation of Israel is to be waited for, and it is worth waiting for, and it will be very welcome to those who have waited for it, and continue waiting.

(3.) The Holy Ghost was upon him, not only as a Spirit of holiness, but as a Spirit of prophecy; he was filled with the Holy Ghost, and enabled to speak things above himself.

(4.) He had a gracious promise made him, that before he died he should have a sight of the Messiah, Luk_2:26. He was searching what manner of time the Spirit of Christ in the Old Testament prophets did signify, and whether it were not now at hand; and he received this oracle (for so the word signifies), that he should not see death before he had seen the Messiah, the Lord’s Anointed. Note, Those, and those only, can with courage see death, and look it in the face without terror, that have had by faith a sight of Christ.

Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible

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The Church is not ready for the return of the Lord because she lacks holiness of character, a steadfast watchfulness of the Lord, a steady infilling of the oil of the Holy Spirit, and a genuine hope in the promises of God.

Simeon was led by the Spirit into the temple, and so must we, for there the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to meet you, and there you must be ready to meet him. Without spot or wrinkle, full of the Holy Ghost, ever watching and waiting, steadfast in His promises. To these, will the Lord reveal Himself, “…and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.” (Matthew 25:10)

More on Simeon

Received tonight from the ministry of Andrew Strom:

Hosted by ‘Unleavened Bread’ Ministries - a lengthy interview that includes Patrick Ersig recounting his Two Revivals vision, plus Andrew Strom and David Eells bringing out a lot of the background and dangers of this movement that have not been discussed before.

Thats what Pastor Ken Hutcherson of the Antioch Bible Church believes.

From OneNewsNow: ‘Evan-jellyfish with no spiritual vertebrae’

An outspoken pastor and pro-family activist is speaking out about Evangelical leaders he says have no spiritual backbone.

Pastor Ken Hutcherson of the Antioch Bible Church in suburban Seattle is known as much for his straight talk as for his former NFL career. And when it comes to Evangelicals who want to disengage from allegedly “political” issues, his comments are as hard-hitting as his tackles.

“Right now a lot of white Evangelicals are just ‘Evan-jellyfish’ with no spiritual vertebrae,” he says.

Hutcherson is particularly critical of the many liberal and some mainstream leaders who signed on to the recently released document “An Evangelical Manifesto.” He accuses the signers of “trying to hijack evangelicalism because of their moral standards and because of their cultural background.”

The Manifesto’s call away from allegedly political issues, Hutcherson argues, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the very nature of the culture war.

“We haven’t gotten political as Evangelicals,” he asserts. “What has taken place is, the government knows [that] if it makes something political that the church will step out — and that is exactly what has taken place. They are hijacking our moral issues and then telling us to be quiet about it … and that isn’t going to work.”

The Seattle-area pastor believes the best thing that could happen to churches would be to lose the 501(c)3 tax-exempt status that liberal activists currently use to threaten pastors who might speak out on moral issues in the political realm. Then, perhaps, churches would “find [their] backbone again,” Hutcherson says.

“The government did not give us our 501(c)3 because they like us,” he shares. “The government gave us our 501(c)3 so they could control us.”

Pastors need to stand up for biblical truth in every area of society, including politics and government, Hutcherson says, ignoring any threats to their church’s tax-exempt status. “We need to start standing together to do the things that God has called us, take back these moral issues that belong to the church, and stand strong on them — regardless of who says or regardless of what the government threatens us with.”

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Wonder what changes we would see if this ever happened..

-Would most TV evangelists today, abruptly depart from TV?

-Would the prosperity preachers/teachers have to eventually give up their multi-million dollar homes and planes?

-In fact, would we see many big time preachers today, leave the ‘ministry’?

just thinking…

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Great post at: My Beloved Made A Whip blog: Hundreds Go Deaf At and Around Lakeland Revival

Also check out this: 10 Signs That Your Church Has a Carnival Spirit Attached To It