28 Comments

Time for Christians to reject Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter


Excellent message posted at Scottish Warriors For Christ: Why Did Senator Obama Win? – Time for Christians to reject Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter.

Quote..

I wrote the piece below last February. Perhaps this election has taught the American Christians something, I hope so. When all is said and done, this world needs hope. In a world of ever increasing darkness, there is a more desperate need for light. Like a moth to a flame, people will reach out in time of need. And if the Church, the Royal Priesthood, is not shining the light of Christ, which represents true hope, a blessed hope, then the world will look to itself to find it…

For years American Christians have listened to people whom they believe represent them. All I can say is shame on all true Christians who have helped these particular people in their careers. We have been called by the Lord Himself to be peacemakers. These people are and have been so divisive. They pander to the narrow minded and the bigoted. Day after day they go about their business, tearing into anyone who does not agree with their particular point of view…

All I will say is Bravo! We discussed in another thread some months back, the harm which has been done to the testimony of Christ by what the lost perceive as our close association with (or at least, approval of) certain (supposedly conservative) talk-radio Shock Jocks. They have  ultimately “hijacked” many of the conservative positions we as Christians hold to for biblical reasons, for their own agendas, many times presenting these stances as hate-speak. Most if not all of them make a very lucrative living at it too:

(Sean Hannity recently signed a $20 million-a-year deal to do his radio show)

(LIMBAUGH SIGNS THROUGH 2016; $400 MILLION DEAL SHATTERS BROADCAST RECORDS)

I was overjoyed to read someone else feels the same. I hope you will read the entire message at Scottish Warriors For Christ HERE. The author also gives his insight on why he believes so many people jumped at Obama’s message of hope…

28 comments on “Time for Christians to reject Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter

  1. PJ,
    First I have to say that the elites need the conservative view point in order to work the dialectic. It’s “us against them”. They have to be devisive …. it’s part of “the plan”.

    Secondly, conservative radio may be in trouble with the new administration. I just read this today on wnd:

    Obama to appoint talk radio’s executioner?
    Expected FCC transition chief served during ‘Fairness Doctrine’ days

    ——————————————————————————–
    Posted: November 08, 2008
    1:00 am Eastern

    © 2008 WorldNetDaily

    Henry Rivera

    Democrat Henry Rivera, a former commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission, is expected to head President-elect Barack Obama’s FCC transition team, a move that has sparked fear in media circles that the Fairness Doctrine may return to silence conservative talk radio.

    If reenacted, the “Fairness Doctrine” would require broadcasts over the public airwaves to give equal time to opposing political views. For talk radio, which boomed after the law’s repeal in 1987 by building an audience devoted to conservative talk, the law’s return would decimate the industry’s marketability.

    Many fear the “Fairness Doctrine” would drive talk radio hosts – like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Michael Savage – out of business.

    Read the whole article here: http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80424

    And lastly, I agree with Scottish Warriors …. Jesus said His Kingdom was NOT of this world!

  2. My mom and I go on walks on Tuesdays. This last Tuesday we were talking about this same topic. Funny that the names that came up in conversation we Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh…Bill O’Reily…

    Sometimes PJ, I think I am sending you transcripts of my personal conversations while sleepwalking or something…it’s funny.

  3. This is a good article and heeding the admonition by the author of it, I will not trust in it, the arm of the flesh! 🙂

    That’s not saying I do not accept what I read, no, no. I accept it but why, is the question?

    Here’s why.

    In the first paragraph of the article you read this:

    “[[When all is said and done, this world needs hope. In a world of ever increasing darkness, there is a more desperate need for light.]]”

    That caught my eye and attention and quite literally the Holy Ghost began speaking to me about it.

    Here’s what the Holy Ghost inspired a man to write rightly about the world’s need for “hope” and quickened in my spirit as I read those words:::>

    1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
    1Pe 1:5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
    1Pe 1:6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials,
    1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith–more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire–may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Do you see the difference in what the man wrote and what I quoted from 1 Peter?

    We have a question in my Congregation that goes something like this:

    “who is pushing the verbs, God or man”?

    Here is the “outcome” of the matter, or, the end of the matter when one lets “God” do all the work which He does, needing nothing from us. I know, I know, that is so humiliating to those who are seeker sensitive and have an emergent cause and a lust for glory believing that God needs our help in our salvation receiving the “inheritance” after the death, burial and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Consider the old time “Prophet”, the weeper, the crying “Prophet” Jeremiah:::>

    Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.
    Jer 17:6 He is like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see any good come. He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness, in an uninhabited salt land.
    Jer 17:7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD.
    Jer 17:8 He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit.”
    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
    Jer 17:10 “I the LORD search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

    Now, putting the article into the context of Jeremiah’s words above, let me ask, now that the dust has settled and Hannity, Coulter and Limbaugh failed to move upon God’s Hearts so the outcome of the last election would make each one look bright, futuristic, manipulative, scheming and whatever else you want to say, hasn’t God given to every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds?

    I stand judged by the Words of God!

    If any knows the zero property in Math, it certainly applies here, now, now doesn’t it?

    0 + 1 is always, 1 and 0. The zero stays constant and the number 1 stays constant.

    According to God and the Prophet Jeremiah, my heart is deceitfully wicked, desperately sick so why would any reasoned soul want to know it?

    Now that I know it, I shy away from knowing it and it beats inside my chest, bu bump, bu bump, bu bump! Yikes!

    Now I rise up in the abundance of Grace and Gift of Righteousness believing the revelation written about me here:

    Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
    Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
    Rev 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

    Now I can remain vigilant, sober, daily now, knowing God by His Grace, Mercy and Love. Now I can actively pray as one of those priests I have been made by His bloody blood stained Cross and rejoice in the fact and because of this fact, rejoice, giving praise to the One Whose Glory and Dominion set me free from my own personal iniquities and sins and trangressions because of His Active Grace, Mercy and Love for me too!

    You?

    Ah, can I hear an amen?

    It is a good article and points to Christ and not to human reasons for loss or gain by the arm of the flesh.

  4. PJ,

    Once again…you reflect my thoughts..

    Michael…you are to deep for me…lol

    I agree with everything that has been said. Even though I originally liked many of them, I always wondered how these great “Christian” conservative talk show hosts seem to be so bitter and filled with hatred.

    They also tend to like decidely un-Christian things (I can recall hearing Laura Ingraham call “National Lampoons Animal House” a great move…

    None of them (including Bill O’Reilly, which actually shocked me a little) seemed to grasp the historical significance of Obama’s victory, and how it has the potential to possibly uplift a race of people who did not believe their nation truly represented them.

    It has also given all minorities, and even poor underpriviliged whites, hope that they can be president someday, that this really is the country where “All things are Possible”

    However, like Michael said, we must trust in God and not man for our help and salvation. I am happy that we have our first black president (despite many of his policies) but I don’t consider him to be the solution to this country’s problems.

    The citizens of our country have a “heart” problem. The only person who can perform the necessary transplant is Jesus Christ. The church of America…unfortunately has the same problem. It reminds me of this scripture that is so wrongly used for evangelism, however he is actually addressing and apostate church:

    REV 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

  5. Thanks for the link truthspeaker! Time will tell i guess, [though i question anything WND posts, LOL!!!)

    I can’t recall if you were involved in the thread some months back, about these Conservative talk radio ‘shock jocks’…but i recall making the observation then, that “if” or rather “when” specific hate laws which will affect Christians, are put into action in this nation, these people are going to be carrying a huge part of the blame.

    They have, all in the name of “political conservatism” pushed the envelope time and time again, trying to one-up each other and even themselves, from week to week.

    I don’t listen to any of these people now…though i use to regularly some years ago.

    Let me tell you what i observed this year–and it shocked me.

    I’ve always had cable…that is up until 3 years ago when after moving decided i just couldn’t afford it and didn’t need it anyway.

    So for that period of 3 years, i had not watched any cable news networks–Fox had always been my choice when i had cable. I got ‘hooked’ on it 8 years ago during the first Bush run for the White House.

    Well, when this year started with all the politics going on, i wanted to watch the cable news shows again! Just to keep up on things…’

    God had wonderfully provided me with a nice new computer 18 months ago, so i was able to watch now online. [i had trouble watching with live feeds on my old one] Hooray! i thought.

    After a 3 year ‘drought’ away from Fox cable news, i was SHOCKED and appalled at the difference…the horrible difference today compared to just 3 years ago on some of the nightly news/commentary programs–like Hannity and Combs. I actually felt like i had entered a parallel universe–or had been like Rip Van Winkle, waking up after a long sleep, to a ‘changed’ Fox cable news media, which had grown into an angry hate filled bunch of neo-bots.

    No kidding! 🙂

    Those of you who have watched or listened to these guys [and women] all along, may not be aware, like i was after going cold-turkey for 3 yrs, ‘just’ how MUCH these shows have changed. That goes for their radio programs too…

    One such radio broadcast of Rush Limbaugh’s, i listened to a few weeks ago, had me close to tears:

    Rush Limbaugh Is A Racist

    *BE WARNED, bad language included in the clip*

    My point is they all have escalated in their hate-speak over the years, which has reflected badly upon the Church in America–mainly because we have accepted them as fellow conservatives. And by our acceptance of them, even if by our silence, we are now perceived to be ‘just like them’ by many of the lost.

    They see us and them as one and the same: Christian Conservatives–a group to be not only highly suspicious of but feared.

    What is sad is none of the Jocks have anything whatsoever to do with the Jesus of the bible or Christ’s message.

    We (conservative Christians) “believed” we were using them–allowing them to be our ‘voices’, after many years of feeling we had none, but what happened is the ‘beast’ devoured the true biblical conservative message, and the Church along with it. They have now ended up using us…

    I agree with everything that has been said. Even though I originally liked many of them, I always wondered how these great “Christian” conservative talk show hosts seem to be so bitter and filled with hatred.

    They also tend to like decidely un-Christian things…

    They not only like unChristian things brother they spew unChristian ideologies like discord and hate…

    Once again…you reflect my thoughts..

    Sometimes PJ, I think I am sending you transcripts of my personal conversations while sleepwalking or something

    Kit, and My3Sons,

    Either great minds think alike, or we’re all hearing the same things from the wonderful Holy Spirit who lives within us. I tend to think its the latter for im sure no great mind. AHAHA….

  6. I too have been discouraged with FOX news, WND and radio talk. Use to watch FOX news and found that it only made me angry.
    The Lord is definetly working on our hearts and opening our eyes to the truth and we are listening to what the Spirit is saying in these last days.
    AMEN!!!

  7. It doesn’t surprise me that liberal Christians vote for liberal candidates 🙂

  8. The issue is that most people seem to be most concerned about the title liberal or conservative than that of Christian. I would rather think that the most important thing a person could aspire to be is a Christian. If they end up being liberal or conservative is not as much an important matter to me. People tend to judge against their brothers and sisters in the Lord as if they are the standard of how a Christian should vote. How presumptuous!!! Some “liberal” Christians may have just come to salvation and may need to mature into a more Christ like theological worldview. However, on the other hand, some “conservative” Christians may think they are the plumb line for how all Christians should vote, all the while harboring feelings of hate and anger towards anyone who doesn’t agree. It would be my opinion that these people may need to mature as well into a more Christ like theological worldview. It is so obvious that the Devil loves to use worldly politics to divide the Body. Just because someone is a Christian and is anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage does NOT mean that they must vote one way or the other. I know quite a few people who struggled with this decision and voted for Obama. But I do not doubt their salvation either. This whole thing with labeling people “liberal” Christians and “conservative” Christians is just another way for both camps to feel that they are better than the other. Such pride and arrogance!!! Humble yourselves and submit to the counsel of God. And pray….even if “your guy” didn’t win. Pray for the leaders, not against them.

  9. The Holy Spirit is saying the truth, loud and clear to the Church in the last days and we all my brothers and sisters are hearing it. PRAISE GOD!

    Kit, my3Sons, I think the same thing most of the time also. It’s like PJ is reading my mind, this is no coincidence. It is the voice of truth.

    Hallelujah!

  10. Obama is just going to make Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter and others rich beyond their wildest dreams!

  11. Steve

    I’m sure you’re going to be proven correct. For example in todays Los Angeles Times:

    Right-wing media feeds its post-election anger

    You have to give Rush Limbaugh a perverse kind of credit. At least when he is demonizing Barack Obama, fabricating Obama policies, blaming Obama for single-handedly causing the recession and the stock market crash, he doesn’t pretend to be fair.

    Opening his first post-election rant against the president-elect, Limbaugh launched in with a certain relish. “The game,” he told his radio listeners, “has begun.”

    Sean Hannity, on the other hand, insisted on feigning a post-election detente, telling his Fox News television audience last week, “I want Barack Obama to succeed.”

    Didn’t he think anyone would notice that, just a moment later, he was back parroting the failed campaign argument that Obama is a “mystery”?

    “I fear [this] is the guy that has these radical associations 20 years ago,” Hannity added, an odd way of demonstrating support for the new commander in chief.

    Many on the losing end of last week’s election want to hold on to their anger. And there are those in the media — led by the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity — only too ready to feed that animus, along with their own ratings.

    “They’re going to take your 401(k), put it in the Social Security trust fund, whatever the #### (profanity here) that is,” Limbaugh woofed. “Trust fund, my rear end.”

    A slight problem with Limbaugh’s report: Obama and the Democrats have proposed no such thing…. MORE AT LINK

    I’m sure they’re only getting started–as Limbaugh said:

    “The game has begun.”

    Words can be dangerous tools..and these shock jocks don’t seem to care.

    I was reading a news story yesterday, out of Washington:

    Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

    The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of “palling around with terrorists”, citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

    The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling “terrorist” and “kill him” until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

    But it has now emerged that her tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

    The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin’s attacks….

    Details of the spike in threats to Mr Obama come as a report last week by security and intelligence analysts Stratfor, warned that he is a high risk target for racist gunmen.

    It concluded: “Two plots to assassinate Obama were broken up during the campaign season, and several more remain under investigation. We would expect federal authorities to uncover many more plots to attack the president that have been hatched by white supremacist ideologues.”

    I’m positive this woman had no clue what her words [which in no way compare to the radio ‘fear speakers’ use] could result in that…the point is these guys do know and don’t care. The more hate they can spread the higher the ratings.

    And think about it: what “if” their careless hate talk brought about something unspeakable as a result—we, Christians, are in the minds of the lost secular nation/world closely associated with them Most of the lost in this nation believe these guys speak for ‘conservative Christians’..

    scary..

  12. Hi pj –

    I know your heart is for accuracy and to “get it right” when it comes to facts, so please take a look at http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html for the Secret Service’s account of the above alledged incident at a McCain/Palin rally.

    Some excerpts from the Times Leader:

    SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

    . . . Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

    He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton. [Singleton is the so-called reporter that “broke” the story. Apparently he simply made it up.]

    . . . Slavoski said more than 20 non-security agents were interviewed Wednesday, from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally for the Republican vice presidential candidate held at the Riverfront Sports Complex. He said Singleton was the only one to say he heard someone yell “kill him.”

    “We have yet to find someone to back up the story,” Slavoski said. “We had people all over and we have yet to find anyone who said they heard it.”

    . . . Slavoski said the agents take such threats or comments seriously and immediately opened an investigation but after due diligence “as far as we’re concerned it’s closed unless someone comes forward.” He urged anyone with knowledge of the alleged incident to call him at 346-5781. “We’ll run at all leads,” he said.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    While I would agree that conservatism amongst believers has become too dependent on the “talkers” to bring about desired cultural change, to be fair, those “talkers” have been a valuable resource for viewpoints that are glaringly absent in the mainstream media.

    We, as redeemed believers, need to be in the business of loving our neighbors and intoducing them to the Changer of hearts. That’s our job, not the “talkers”.

    “Talkers” brand of truth is by design primarily secular, as is the medium in which they operate. Is it appropriate that they be held to a Biblical standard? Is it fair to saddle them with the shortcomings of the Church?

    I’ve listened to my fair share of talk radio this election season and have heard plenty of satire and “absurdity to demonstrate absurd” as Mr. Limbaugh occasionally chimes.

    [As for Rush and the clip you posted above to TheYoungTurks’ YouTube posting, do some research on those guys and consider the source and the context of the clip they use. TheYoungTurks, in that same clip, go on to characterize ACORN as a pure as snow “helper” of various facets of the community, when in fact, ACORN does have a rather left-leaning agenda and is under federal investigation for MANY cases of voter-registration fraud, among other things. There are several on-going “issues” over the years with that organization in particular, yet TheYoungTurks choose to hail ACORN while trashing Rush Limbaugh.]

    Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck (along with a few local talkers) are the talkers I’ve heard recently, and I’ve not heard hate-speech or racism or fear-mongering . . . I’ve heard frustrated conservatives caught in the tidal-wave of “change” that this season has swept across our land.

    Millions have been lulled into a false sense of a secure future by well-polished words of “hope” and “change”.

    Voters have voted for change above all else, and America will indeed get what she asked for. It’s a little un-nerving to think how that “spirit” of change will in reality manifest itself.

    Don’t throw all of the “talkers” under the bus . . . they are a part of the media landscape that provides a degree of accountability to the right and and shines a light (though an imperfect one) on the left, so we can see what they’re up to.

    Though I don’t rely on “talkers” as a sole source of information, I for one count them a valuable resource – and like ANYTHING, I test EVERYTHING, hold on to the good and discard the rest.

    As far as where we as a nation find ourselves politically, let’s face it . . . the world is in a state of decay. One day Christ will return and restore all with an amazing combination of judgement, grace, and mercy.

    Let’s be faithful to love Him and love others into His kingdom. Proper stewardship out of right relationship with God as a culture is of course a hope – but those may not be the times we live in. We just need to be faithful and obedient Him. He know His plans and His timing.

    Wendy at JGIG
    http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/new-president-deep-breath/

  13. Hi Wendy!

    Thanks for the link…..

    There has appeared to be conflicting stories about the ‘kill him’ allegations. The one i posted [above] was the latest out of Washington…not saying its factual, only that its the latest.

    Someone else had asked about it too in another thread…and i had found these stories:

    From Politico: October 14, 2008,

    Chris Hackett addressed the increasingly feisty crowd as they await the arrival of Gov. Palin.
    Each time the Republican candidate for the seat in the 10th Congressional District mentioned Barack Obama, the crowd booed loudly.

    One man screamed “kill him!”

    Supporters have been noted shouting “kill him,” “terrorist,” “off with his head” and other equally incendiary terms about Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Others have directly suggested Mr. Obama is a Muslim, which he is not, or a traitor. Some comments even drew rebuke from Republican presidential nominee John McCain.

    Other than the lone man, there were no other such outbursts.

    And,

    Video; MSNBC, Keith Olbermann

    While I would agree that conservatism amongst believers has become too dependent on the “talkers” to bring about desired cultural change, to be fair, those “talkers” have been a valuable resource for viewpoints that are glaringly absent in the mainstream media.

    I believe at the beginning they were–but what has occurred is a few of them–the well known personalities, have went way beyond presenting conservative view points on matters, into ‘shock’ and ‘riotous hate speech’…

    They are like the flip side of the same coin, with a Howard Stern on the other side.

    They make their living from being highly controversial and in the case of Limbaugh, vulgar and shocking….i understand that. And i say ‘go at it!…its a free country’. But when they are being associated with the conservative Christians in this nation, that’s not good; not for the Church.

    As for Rush and the clip you posted above to TheYoungTurks’ YouTube posting, do some research on those guys and consider the source and the context of the clip..

    Yes i did. [but thanks for pointing it out]…

    I sure don’t agree with the stand those guys have [or much else, lol] but from what i heard there could be no context in which what Limbaugh could be saying those things on public radio, which would be considered right. I thought it was not only bad taste it was stoking the fire of fear during the end of the election.

    Don’t throw all of the “talkers” under the bus….

    I would never do that. There are ‘sane’ conservative talk radio hosts which don’t stoop to ‘sensationalism’ to hike up ratings, but present the truth with facts…they also don’t feel the need to use profanity. I enjoy listening to them….

    they are a part of the media landscape that provides a degree of accountability to the right and and shines a light (though an imperfect one) on the left, so we can see what they’re up to.

    The good ones do–but the Limbaughs and Hannity’s are the ones the lost hear about. They, rightly or wrongly, [because of their popularity] are the ‘voices’ many associate with conservative Christianity.

    Let’s be faithful to love Him and love others into His kingdom. Proper stewardship out of right relationship with God as a culture is of course a hope – but those may not be the times we live in. We just need to be faithful and obedient Him. He know His plans and His timing.

    Amen Wendy, amen!

    God bless you sister…

  14. […] TIME FOR CHRISTIANS TO REJECT LIMBAUGH, HANNITY AND COULTER […]

  15. PJ,

    How do you copy someones quotes and have them show up in the “yellow” color? Is it a simple matter of cut and paste?

    Kit and Mrs Bucket….it is nice to know you aren’t crazy…isn’t it?

    JGIG, I am not going to call that Secret Service agent a liar…but I heard people yelling kill him on some of those clips while watching cable TV. Personally, I am not even sure that Palin knew what she was stirring up. I wonder if she even cared….

    One more thing about Sean Hannity…I was watching a program where someone was talking about how they had forgiven someone for some terrible act. Sean Hannity then said he would not be able to forgive a person for doing what that person did. The thought that came to my mind was, well…then he must not be a Christian.

    Personally, I have more respect for Alan Combs than I do for Sean Hannity, at least Alan is consistent.

    I must admit however that I am still going to watch Bill O’reilly. As far as I am concerned out of all of the conservative talk show hosts he is the fairest.

    I thank God for you all! Be truly blessed!

  16. Rush was sounding good for a minute….I totally agree that the way the Welfar system was horrible because it did encourage fathers to leave their families because they thought they would be “better off” since their families could not get welfare if a father was present.

    The reason why people not born here (even Africans, who weren’t born here) can come here and be successful is because they come here as an intact family unit with their religion, there culture, and their language.

    They go to communities where they support one another, encourage one another, and urge one another to be successful in this sometimes hostile country. Their culture, religion, and language unifies them and helps to keep them together.

    When slaves came from Africa they were separated from their families, and forbidden to speak their language or practice their religion.

    Fathers were little more than “studs” who would be used to father multiple children from various women, they never learned how to be fathers because they never had to be.

    Black women learned to be independent because they had to be. They learned how to “not need a man”. I have learned from being a student of history and going to historical homes that even decades after slavery it was not uncommon for single black women to have children out of wedlock.

    Where do you learn to be loving caring father and husband? From your father!

    Where do you learn to be a respectful submissive wife to your husband, and how to be a loving doting mother? From your mother.

    Blacks did not have those positive role models during slavery…some did…most didn’t.

    After slavery blacks were trying to establish family units that did not exist previously. Many did the best they could but they were at a disadvantage from the get go.

    The only reason I know how to be a good father and husband is from listening to Focus on the family and asking God to help me be a good father. I definitely did not have any role models.

    My maternal grandmother left my grandfather because he used to beat her. She would take the kids and leave the home when he did so. One day he told her if she did it again he would kill her and the kids.

    So she left one day and did not come back into my mother’s life until years later. My mother never really loved my Grandmother, and she was raised by a father who did not show affection, possibly because he was afraid that he would be accused of molesting his daughters if he showed affection. He was a quite brutal man, and he played favorites among his daughters. My light skinned aunt (becaus she was closer to being “white” was the favorite, and he bought her gifts and showed her the most “affection”.

    My mother, was not an affectionate or very emotional woman. I being a boy never noticed…since I WAS affectionate I just went to her and got my hugs. My sisters on the other hand grew up thinking my mother did not love them (women need affection…she did not know how to give it).

    This is what my mother had to deal with.

    My paternal Grandfather used to beat my grandmother, and he never showed love or affection to my father. He also never had time to do anything with him.

    My father, bless his heart, did show me affection…but he never knew how to sit down with me and do things with me. The few times we did things together are precious memories.

    Eventually his difficult childhood and traumatic experiences during Vietnam resulted in his being a drunk and an alcolholic. My parents separated when I was 6 and divorced when I was eight. For a brief time he came back into my life on a regular basis in my early teens, but he was not a good example to me and he was not around for long. ( ai am actually glad that he wasn’t)

    This is the experience of many blacks in America. We want to be good good husbands, and good wives. Unfortunately many of us just don’t know how because from generation to generation we never learned how.

    We were doing fairly well prior to the “Great Society” but the programs meant to help us actually fractured the black family even more than it already was.

    By the grace of God my wife (who also came from a broken family) are trying to forge a Godly family unit. We are trying to establish something that has not existed before. With God to help we are going to do it.

    This is another reason why Obama, despite many of his views is so good for the black community. We need to see a real black family not only just getting by, but excelling.

    We need to see a husband and wife who really love each other.

    Rush needs to talk to some black folks and get the whole story. And did you notice I did not even mention racism and discrimination…that is another story altogether!

  17. I may be a lone voice of dissent on this subject. I don’t want to limit anyone’s freedom of speech. I think we are venturing into dangerous waters when we begin to label people as bigots or haters. Some of them may not be. I don’t listen to the radio shock jocks so I cannot comment on what they are saying. But I was of the opinion that Anne Coulter was a comedian. I think most people take her words with a grain of salt. As for Hannity, I can only listen to his show on FOX in small increments. But I have never heard him use what I would call hate speech.
    I do think that FOX has managed to become a mouthpiece for the Bush administration. And media such as MSNBC and even CNN seem to speak only for the liberals. I would like to see more accountability with the media. I do not want to hear slanted news, but only the news. However, I don’t think that is likely to happen anytime soon.
    I was raised in the south, and I have heard truly hate filled speech. I remember a man named J B Stoner who lived about a mile up the road from where I live now. This man was running for the legislature, and his commercials were truly vile. Every other word was the N word and how he hated them. No decent white would ever use that word so I was shocked. He eventually was tied to a church bombing in Alabama and imprisoned.
    But I wouldn’t want to limit even this horrible man’s speech. If we don’t like what we hear, we shouldn’t listen to it. I am so afraid that we may be labeling some as haters who are not. But even more so, I am afraid we are getting used to trying to limit the speech of others, and at times may even walk on eggshells ourselves for fear of untrue accusations. I just don’t want to go down that path. I am afraid that hate speech may be made a crime. And that it will be used to punish even true Christians.

  18. I ‘think’ when you copy and paste it you can put it between brackets like i do when editing but it will not allow me to show u the brackets on here! Egads, wonder why? When i try they don’t show up..

    I’ll try using them…

    Did it work?

    Yeah!

    Send me a note through the contact page, i’ll send them to you AHA…

    but if u have a problem and ever want something quoted, and can’t seem to use them, let me know by mentioning you want something in quotes, in your comment–when i see it i’ll do it for you in the dashboard…

  19. Lisa..

    But I was of the opinion that Anne Coulter was a comedian.

    ahaha…God bless you sister. No she’s actually an author, speaker and political columnist. Though i agree, sometimes she sounds like a comedian.

    But I wouldn’t want to limit even this horrible man’s speech. If we don’t like what we hear, we shouldn’t listen to it….

    I am afraid we are getting used to trying to limit the speech of others, and at times may even walk on eggshells ourselves for fear of untrue accusations.

    I just don’t want to go down that path. I am afraid that hate speech may be made a crime. And that it will be used to punish even true Christians.

    I understand what you’re saying, and in part agree.

    This is what i ‘predict’ is going to happen though Lisa, these shock jokes, if they be those who call themselves conservative or liberal [right or left wing] are themselves going to a huge part of why hate laws may in fact come into being here in the US.

    That includes the fairness doctrine being reenacted.

    My concern is that many of the lost believe the more outrageous of these so-called ‘right wing’ Radio talk Jocks, are representatives of conservative Christians.

    They don’t represent Christianity—we know that, nor do they represent us–but the lost do not understand that. I know because i read comments every day on secular news sites from these folks.

    This is just my opinion, but i don’t think the Church of Jesus Christ should be allowing ‘anyone’ who is not a born again believer, or a person who speaks or allows profanity on their program [which Limbaugh does often] or that is always trying to incite their audience to anger and/or hate, to be representing them.

    As the author of the message i linked to wrote:

    For years American Christians have listened to people whom they believe represent them. All I can say is shame on all true Christians who have helped these particular people in their careers.

    We have been called by the Lord Himself to be peacemakers. These people are and have been so divisive. They pander to the narrow minded and the bigoted.

    Day after day they go about their business, tearing into anyone who does not agree with their particular point of view.

    And the author is right…

    we are called to hold to the truth, but also be people of peace.

    Again, i understand what you’re saying Lisa, and do agree that people–all people should be allowed to have their voices heard. But some careless words or statements can have consequences…We wouldn’t go into a packed theater and just for the heck of it yell ‘FIRE!’…why? because of the possibility of people getting hurt.

    Some of these Jocks may not yell fire but they incite bad ugly feelings in their listeners with careless comments in order to ‘shock’–which is dangerous too.

    And we, Christians, may end up paying for it

  20. Lisa, God bless you sister. I don’t think your a voice of dissent. I think we all have those same feelings you expressed in one way or another. I certainly don’t want to limit anyone’s free speech either but I think the problem here is that all of the folks mentioned above claim to be followers of Christ (at least they say they are christians…though I’m not real sure what their definition of christian is) but their actions do not fit their words. If you are going to say the things that some of these folks say…well, it’s like the who christian license plate thing…don’t take the name of Jesus down with you.

    Yeah, I think that’s my biggest problem with these folks. It’s like they use christianity for an excuse to say what ever they want about those who don’t have the same morals they do. It’s like “Jesus condoned hatred” and that would be an oxymoron right?

    But, with that being said…I’m still torn because sometimes I agree with these folks…other times I don’t.

  21. You know is seems that the underlying problem with the whole thing is that there is no accountability anymore. Perhaps instead of limiting the opinionated talk, these people should have to face some kind of liable or slander charges everytime they spread untruths. While they all started off with strong opinions that they felt needed to expressed based on their personal beliefs, things were fine. Some may agree, some may not. If you don’t, turn it off. The problem creeps in when you begin to slander or lie about others to bring people to your side. This kind of thing just creates confusion, dissappointment and in extreme cases, hate. When the talk moves from justifiable facts, to malicious lies, the entire spirit of the conversation becomes toxic if you know what I mean.

    For example, have you ever gone to church and the Pastor will exaggerate some statistic to get his point across more strongly? When I’ve heard pastor’s do this from the pulpit, I understand why they do it, but I don’t understand why they have so little faith that God’s Word is not STRONG ENOUGH ON IT’S OWN. I then question the entire teaching of the Pastor, you know? Not that the rest of the sermon isn’t good, I just start to question and feel confused about everything. If the shock jocks truly believe in their message, they will rethink their strategy and get back to being a little more civilized. I think this past election showed that America is pushing back on the nasty spirit that is coming from the airwaves these days.

  22. Kari,

    In response to your paragraph:

    {For example, have you ever gone to church and the Pastor will exaggerate some statistic to get his point across more strongly? When I’ve heard pastor’s do this from the pulpit, I understand why they do it, but I don’t understand why they have so little faith that God’s Word is not STRONG ENOUGH ON IT’S OWN. I then question the entire teaching of the Pastor, you know?}

    My wife and I have recently learned that you have to test everything ANY teacher says, no matter how much you love or trust them. She has just learned that someone she trusted like a father was teaching some things that weren’t true.

    Lisa,

    Did you get that e-mail I sent? Has your daughter contacted the person? Do you need a physical address?

    Also, I don’t think all conservative talk show hosts are hate mongers or racists…I just think some of them are “ignorant” they don’t really understand because they have never experienced certain things for themselves. Or they are just insensitive.

    Also, regarding my previous post. I am NOT saying that people in the black community aren’t responsible for their actions! They are. I just understand some of the unique problems they have.

    Some of them are literally brainwashed into believing they are stuck where they are and they can’t possibly get out. Unfortunately, liberal politicians continue to perpetuate the lies that say the government is to blame for all your problems, therefore they should also provide the solution.

    Hopefully, Obama won’t perpetuate this.

  23. Alright..I give up with the yellow text thing….

    kittykit…I share your frustration. As I said regarding Bill O’reilly I agree with him most of the time too…sigh!

    However, regarding one’s definition of Christianity. I heard a great quote from a pastor I listen too at work (someone loaded all the messages on a shared drive and I copied them).

    This pastor says “People use the same words, but they have a different dictionary…”

    I never heard someone say it clearer. He was actually referring to Cults and how they use the words “God” “Jesus” “Salvation” etc, however they mean something else totally different than what the bible proclaims.

  24. My3Sons,

    I am so sorry that your upbringing was so difficult for you. Mine was extremely hard as well and I really identify with your struggles to break the “generational curse”. I am afraid that it is not just the African American community that has been so morally confused. My real father, too, returned from Viet Nam a “hot mess” as my teenagers would say. He volunteered fro 2 tours and returned a drunk, drug abuser and extremely violent. He even threw my sister in a dumpster when she was a baby and the police found her because a neighbor heard her crying. He left when I was 2 and I have not seen him since. My mother remarried a very unkind man, but stayed with him for financial reasons (I guess). My grandmother had been divorced and remarried and I continued the trend by having been married and divorced twice before I was 27.

    My husband was raised by his alcoholic father who beat his mother severely and she left when my husband was 3 at gunpoint. His father told her if she ever tried to see her kids again, he’d kill her. My husband never saw his mother again. He had 7 stepmothers, had a stepbrother who violated him as child and the trauma continued until his father died from drinking.

    He and I both came to be believers together, we were married (we had been living in sin) and we are now one flesh. We too will try to be a Godly family just as you and your wife strive for the same thing. By the grace of God we will certainly succeed! I just wanted to let you know that the fall from morality in this country effects all races. I have found that in this country we are more separated by money and status these days than by merely race. It is only the grace of God that can save families now, society is too far gone.

    God bless you and your family for your good works. I know it is not easy to change generational habits and to leave the past behind! I pray that God has completely healed the scars of your past. You are a new creation!

  25. Kari, and My3sons

    God bless you guys and your families. You both are overcomers and I thank Jesus for saving you. That fruit will go on in the lives of your kids and anyone who happens to see your lights shining. I know your lives were hard growing up as many of ours were, but you inspire people when you share your stories.

    Thanks for having the courage to do so!

    Gee I wish Ann Coulter was a comedian, then I could blow off all the smarmy nasty things she says as satire or sarcasm. I just wish she would wear pants once in a while. Does she have to look like a hoochy and wear a cross hanging around her neck? Sorry forgive me Lord! But that woman just drives me nuts! I think she loves that people hate her, and it just makes her nastier I have to agree that Bill O’Reilly is the one I like the most, at least he tries to be fair.

  26. Mrs. Boo-kay-

    I am sure that you also have a pretty interesting story to tell. I remember when we were following that Brendt Russo guy (remember with the bus ministry outside Lakeland), you told us about the times that you were without a home. I remember crying when I read that because there were times in my life when I found living homeless was better than living in abuse. I can totally understand why women become prostitutes (it never got that bad for me, but I can see how it could have).

    Here’s the great news, though: while most “christians” are amazed and astonished at feathers and gross oily hands dripping in jars, those miracles don’t even come close to the way that God has transformed all of our lives. He completely removed every hurtful, bad, evil thing inside of us and made us BEAUTIFUL! Children of the King above ALL Kings!!! We can enter His throne room and tell Him anything as His beloved children! Wow, I need to go and THANK HIM right now, I seemed to have worked myself up into some Holy Ghost lather of my own! I’m going to have a little revival in the office bathroom! Be Blessed!

    P.S. Did ya’ll keep up with the Russo guy? What happened to him?

  27. Oh and P.S.S. Mrs. B –
    I have been reading that Holy Grail website that you linked to that that KittyKit was all like “serpent seed! Be Careful!” to see what it said. Oh my, how interesting. I’ve been reading it for about 3 days and the little arrow thingy on the right side to move down the page is still at the top. I guess I’ll get back to you in year when I have finished reading the first page.

  28. Kari,

    Wow…well, I see we all have some difficulties to deal with. Like you I am glad we are overcoming these generational curses. I just heard a pastor speak on how Abraham’s lying passed down to his children and it got worse, and worse, until eventually Jacob’s son’s were lying to him about their brother being killed when they had actually sold him into slavery.

    God used that horrible situation, and I am sure if we continue to abide he will use our situations for good too.

    Mrs. Bucket Thanks for your encouraging words.

    P.S. Please don’t respond to this…I know this thread is about dead….

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