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Gold Dust (and more Crowder Mockery)


Below are links to John Crowder’s latest video clips from Indonesia. The one I’d watched prior to these today, was recorded in Korea; which shows his intent to spread this mocking blasphemous unclean spirit around the world.

Gold Outbreak in Indonesia (John Crowder & Benjamin Dunn)

Huffing Gold Dust in Indonesia! – Life of the Party

About gold-dust: I’d be interested in any help you could offer. I’ve been digging into archived articles and even Church history, looking to trace the gold-dust mania back to its beginning. Does anyone have any idea when this began? I read in one essay it started during the early days of the “health and wealth” gospel. But I think it probably started before that. Over at CROSS+WORD, one archived article (1999) claims many of the early incidents were reported coming out of South America; (see Gold Dust and Gold Teeth) and (Truth Matters Newsletter: The Spring Gold Rush Issue 1999)

From my understanding the population in South American countries has always been predominately Catholic; which leads me to wonder if the  gold-dust phenomena, if it did originate in SA,  is linked to the increase of Marian apparitions and manifestations, over the last 50 years.

From, Conyers Apparitions Electronic Journal – December 1992

Our Loving Mother’s Monthly Message to the United States
December 13, 1992

It was a beautiful Sunday. The crowd of pilgrims was as large as, if not larger than, the 23,000 to 25,000 pilgrims on October 13, 1992.  The pilgrims came again to pray the 15 decades of the Rosary with the Blessed Mother. In the morning, Nancy was worried about the monthly apparition. Jesus said, “Why do you look worried? Do you not know who leads you? Do you not trust Me?” Nancy then saw the pictures of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary glow in light. Before the noontime apparition at the farm house, Nancy was praying before the crucifix in a room adjacent to the apparition room. Jesus appeared and said, ” Gold dust will fall from Heaven. Rosaries will turn golden color and hearts will be converted. I am healing My children. Go and believe.” This message was not shared with the pilgrims yet immediately following the apparition several pilgrims were testifying of seeing gold dust on their hands and showing rosaries that had turned to a golden color. (see Marian Apparitions and Gold)

Just thinking outloud…

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65 comments on “Gold Dust (and more Crowder Mockery)

  1. PJ,

    Did you read the occultic (alchemy) meanings for gold listed towards the end of the aritcle on Gold Dust, Gold Teeth you linked above? I read that aricle several years ago. If what is said there is accurate, it seems to me that there may be a very strong connection with the Manifest Sons of God beliefs out there in many of these circles that believes that to one degree or another people can become immortal while in this body on this earth.

  2. Cheryl, that a good point about immortality, gold and the Manifest sons of God teachings…

    I’m going to post the section on Alchemy you pointed out:

    Alchemy

    The most significant meaning for gold is of course in the realm of alchemy, and most people know that the aim of alchemy was to transmute base metals into gold. Although this was actually attempted as a chemical process, the real meaning behind alchemy was a spiritual transformation of flesh into divinity.

    Swiss psychologist Carl Jung (1875-1961) wrote some of his major works on alchemy, putting forward a psychological interpretation. He saw it as a method of self transformation whereby the alchemist unites the opposite elements within himself (e.g., male/female; conscious/unconscious) and attains completeness as a human being.

    To mystics and occultists alchemy is a spiritual discipline, whereby a person transmutes the base elements of the personality into “spiritual gold”. To the Adept this is a powerful process of transformation that unlocks the keys of magical power and of immortality.

    For the Jews, the sprinkled blood of sacrificial animals was their redemption and covering. Jesus Christ, the TRUE Way of salvation and immortality, shed his blood as a sacrifice for mankind and believers are, as it were, sprinkled with his blood and so are cleansed in God’s sight.

    But in the occult world, it is the sun-god (Lucifer) who provides the way of transformation. Thus the rays of the sun and sprinklings, showers or dustings of gold are seen as life-giving emanations of the divine light. They are the sun-god’s blessing upon mortals and his means of illumination. Some even today drink powdered gold-dust for healing.

    When Ellie Crystal on an alchemy/esotericism bulletin board said she had recently been drawn to the colour frequency of gold and asked for interpretations from her peers, she was given this insight in response: “Effervescent Gold is the 12th Ray, of Spiritual Mastery, Ascension, Anchoring in New Age & Christ Consciousness.”

    It is the goal of the New Age to lift mankind into a new vibration, to awaken people to “christ-consciousness” within; this involves a luciferic initiation in which the mind is changed from the old paradigm to the new one and the enlightened one then sees mankind as one united entity joined to a living planet that must evolve into a higher spiritual dimension.

    Those who undergo the transformation understand that they have divine capabilities and begin to train themselves to use their new-found powers. Eventually they believe they will transform the planet itself, and become spiritual beings ruling on a higher plane.

    All this is symbolised by the GOLD of the highest spiritual attainment. A disciple of the new age would have no difficulty in interpreting the recent events in churches!

    I have no doubt that the supporters of the World Teacher Maitreya will shortly claim the gold miracles as yet more proof of the coming of the New Age, and the emergence of the “christ”.

    If you visit their web site you will find many similar miracles already listed as evidence of their christ’s appearance, phenomena such as glowing crosses, weeping and bleeding statues, visions of the Madonna, and inexplicable pictures appearing – for example: On Easter Sunday 1991, a picture was taken of the Philippine piece of glass containing a cross of light. When the negative was developed, the image of a hand showed up in the glass.

    Something i hadn’t thought of until reading this–that being that this ‘gold dust’ which covers the person, as you see in Crowders clips, (plus all the other claims/clips etc) is a demonic substitute for the covering of Christ’s blood!

    That’s interesting. Satan hates the blood…

  3. PJ

    Ruth Ward Hefflin was an early one into this in “protestant circles” in the latest wave – but like you say it has been known in Marian circles long before this.

    I am just seeing the connections [thanks to a poster on my site] between all this and the Philadelphians and Jane Leade. Linked to alchemy and MSOG Latter Rain beliefs.

  4. Exodus 32:20 – “He took the (gold) calf which they had made and burned it with fire, and ground it to powder, and scattered it over the surface of the water and made the sons of Israel drink it”…..

    Gold dust being evident but only as judgement!

  5. ps I had heard in the early 1990s [through either YWAM or the Vineyard I cannot recall] about this stuff going on in Argentina. Long before 1999 anyway.

  6. PJ:

    Endtimespropheticwords has given you some great information about Ruth Ward Heflin. I would also research the history of some of the people who preached at Heflin’s Calvary Pentecostal Campground in Virginia along with a Brazilian woman by the name of

    Sylvania Machado (hope I spelled it right)

  7. PJ

    I am NOT trying to promote my site, [you can delete this comment if you want to] but I really want you to see this post as the info is so good.

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/the-nars-fairy-godmother-jane-leade-the-philadelphian-society/

  8. Exodus 32:20 – “He took the (gold) calf which they had made and burned it with fire, and ground it to powder, and scattered it over the surface of the water and made the sons of Israel drink it”…..

    Gold dust being evident but only as judgement!

    Teddy, yes, what Moses sprinkled upon the water was in fact gold dust. And it does denote judgment or punishment..

    I believe its very telling as to why God, through Moses used this type of judgment upon the people; its was because of their need to possess a god which was tangible, could be seen and touched– one which didn’t require faith to be followed and obeyed. This same thing is evident today in the gold dust/angel feathers craze. The people want evidence they can see and touch, supernatural phenomena, rather then a faith walk.

  9. Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all of this garbage? I couldn’t even watch either of the videos in their entirety. It is an abomination to the holiness of God. I feel sick to my stomach that this deception is seeping into the world in the name of Holy Spirit. Could this be blaspheming of the Holy Spirit that the Bible warns about? I shudder to think this could be so.

  10. I had heard in the early 1990s [through either YWAM or the Vineyard I cannot recall] about this stuff going on in Argentina. Long before 1999 anyway.

    The late 90’s seems to be when it really took off in charismatic circles here too. At least from what i’ve read [so far]. Toronto also appears to have been one of the jumping off points–at least in this phenomena becoming so wide spread. (im still digging lol)

    So far, its been hard to pin down exactly when or where the first time this occurred was reported. In all the reports i’ve read so far, the 90’s keep popping up, but only because of reports coming in from California, Georgia, etc. and Canada, almost simultaneously.

    The first time i ever heard anything about it was when the church i was attending (for a brief time) back in the mid 90’s had a visiting pastor come to speak from his church in England. He reported gold dust falling on his congregation, stating it was a ‘sign’ from God. (both his and the church i was attending, were non-denominational)

    I can say in all my years in pentecostal churches, i never heard about anything like this…

    wow Mariam, i just read through your post, The NAR’s Fairy Godmother? Jane Leade & The Philadelphian Society. (hope everyone will read it)

    I need to slowly go through it again. You’ve done a lot of research!

    I read the 1619 Prophecy document. Never heard of it before today or heard of Jane Lead and the Philadelphian Society.

    You stated,

    ..by 2004, I proved beyond beyond any shadow of doubt that several pioneer leaders of the NOLR from which C. Peter Wagner derived his NAR/ICA entity had hardcopies of the 1679 Prophecy from the Philadelphian Society and they all embraced it like it came directly from the Throne room of Almighty God

    This entire NAR org. and its members are appearing more esoteric then i originally thought them to be. Like a society along the lines of freemasonry, with one side the public sees, and the other hidden side, full of secrets which only those deep inside the movement are aware of..

    I would also research the history of some of the people who preached at Heflin’s Calvary Pentecostal Campground in Virginia along with a Brazilian woman by the name of
    Sylvania Machado..

    Yes, i want to do that OFT… I saw her name mentioned in a couple articles today when doing my search.

    This was one i found at Apologetics Research:

    On Sept. 8, 1999, Charisma News Service reported the following:

    A Brazilian evangelist at the center of the “gold dust” phenomenon being reported at charismatic churches across the United States and Europe says she is unfazed by scientific reports suggesting that all that glitters is not what it seems.

    Two independent tests on samples of the gold-colored dust that falls from Silvania Machado’s head during services have found the substance to be more like plastic glitter, with no gold content.

    But Machado, who attributes the manifestation to her divine healing from cancer, is untroubled by the conclusions of the analyses carried out on behalf of “Charisma” magazine. “To me, it doesn’t matter what it is as long as it’s from God”, she said.
    (…)

    “Charisma” had two samples of Machado’s gold dust analyzed by the U.S. Geological Survey in Washington, D.C. Both were deemed to be plastic film with no traces of gold, platinum or silver.

    The same article also reports

    In May, John Arnott of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF) canceled a scheduled four-day appearance by Machado after sending a sample of the flecks that cascaded from her head on the first night for testing. A geochemist at the University of Toronto concluded the specks did not contain any gold or platinum but were some type of plastic film.
    (…)

    Meanwhile, churches also are reporting incidents in which people’s silver fillings are being miraculously renewed or even replaced by gold ones. A number of cases have been documented and verified at TACF, reinforcing Arnott’s decision not to continue the Machado meetings. “I didn’t want to have her here because we have had far too much of the real thing–gold teeth and gold dust–to have something suspect,” he said.
    (…)

    A full report on the gold dust and gold teeth phenomena will appear in the November 1999 issue of “Charisma”. The article contains an account–documented by dental records–of an Oklahoma woman who received seven gold crowns during a healing service in Tulsa six months ago.

    more HERE

  11. “…which shows his intent to spread this mocking blasphemous unclean spirit around the world.”

    This is the part that disturbed me the most when I saw these videos the other day. I had the privilege to serve in that part of the world (Malaysia) for six years (2001-2007) in outreach to Muslims, so I became somewhat familiar with the state of the national churches there (more so in Malaysia, but also in Indonesia). The last thing the churches there need is this “drunken glory”/gold dust nonsense.

    Being that animism/superstition is such a stronghold in that part of the world, and being that the Chinese (who make up the majority of believers there) put such an emphasis on prosperity in their culture, I really grieve when I see big-name Western ministers exporting their own version of this rubbish. After all, they rush in and rush out and don’t stay around to see the long-term damage they leave behind.

    Todd Bentley packed out a stadium in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) in 2007. I also often saw that the book tables in Malaysia’s largest churches were well-stocked with books written by Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, and other false teachers. Their teaching resonates with those who wish to embrace Christianity and remain in love with this present world at the same time. [God has His remnant there as well, of course. I’m speaking generally.] It’s no surprise that the national church in Malaysia is, by and large, ingrown and unwilling to love (let alone reach out to) their Muslim neighbors. Evangelism of Muslims is a huge “no-no”; otherwise, God forbid, His people might suffer.

    By the grace of God, I’ve persuaded more than one pastor/leader in Malaysia to beware of the false teachings and practices of the Word of Faith/Apostolic/Prophetic/NAR movements. I’m told that these same issues exist in Indonesia as well, depending on the province.

    In the second video above (“Huffing gold dust…”), I found it ironic that at the 1:02 mark a script appears which says, “Like ravenous wolves they huff it up!” A few days ago I managed to post a comment under that video remarking that the “ravenous wolves” were not the people in the audience, but the ones holding the microphones. Surprisingly, the comment remained for about 24 hours before it was removed.

  12. ..I really grieve when I see big-name Western ministers exporting their own version of this rubbish. After all, they rush in and rush out and don’t stay around to see the long-term damage they leave behind.

    Your comment Adam reminded me of something David Wilkerson said some years back after returning from an overseas visit to meet with pastors, mainly in the underground churches.

    He said these pastors begged him to stop the American evangelists who preach the prosperity gospel from coming to their countries. To tell them, ‘please don’t come’. They told David these men came, preached their apostate ‘gospel’ then left–not realizing the damage they had done to believers in these congregations.

    I’ve said for years, America is the biggest exporter of heresy and false teachings, in the world today. And now we’ve got Crowder and company..sigh…

    In the second video above (”Huffing gold dust…”), I found it ironic that at the 1:02 mark a script appears which says, “Like ravenous wolves they huff it up!”

    I caught that too. And like you, thought what irony!

    Good for you for posting a comment! Even if it did get removed later…

  13. When we move away from ministries of Word and sacrament…we can end up with this stuff.

    All over the world, we are letting people who do not care about the Church…redefine the Church.

    What a circus.

  14. “The gold dust and dentistry school of prophetic ministry.”
    Interestingly enough, the first encounter that I had with “gold dust”, and “gold teeth” did have a South American connection. It was right after Toronto, and Randy Clark travelled to Argentina, I believe, and hooked up with an “Apostolic” posse down there. They subsequently made a few American tours with Clark, touting their brand of revival, which included “spiritual mapping”, and the casting down of the Satanic Princes over territories.

    They claimed that cities had been claimed using this method, and of course that they were the apostles who had the anointing to do it…[ circa 1995?…] Bobby Conner, a braggart on the order of Bentley, ended up travelling with this group, and ministering, and probably was the chief proponent of “THE GOLD DUST AND DENTISTRY SCHOOL OF PROPHETIC MEETINGS!”

    I am sure their were others, but Conner was probably the more audacious one.Two of my friends, whom I thought to be somewhat mature, were deceived in this huckstery. One returned from these meetings with these South American “brothers”, and had received a golden tooth; a molar. Conner had “prophesied” that these teeth would be implanted by angels, upon the select few that were worthy, to be able to chew ” meat “, rather than just be a lowly milk sucker, like the rest of the babies in the Church.

    Then, as though by Elijah himself, he waved his hand, and “WAH-LAH!…people became toothy filled….lol. My friend was one of them. Boy, was he excited. I was too, for I had never seen a real creative miracle before. I asked my friend to let me see it, and he promptly jawed his mouth wide open, and there it was!..A set of normal, rather grungy normal grinders, with out a hint of silver, gold, or even lead!

    Needless to say, when I told him they were not gold, but normal….he proclaimed that I had no faith, and has not spoke to me since.

    I have went to a mass hypnotist once in my life. I was at a hotel, and this fellow was having a show, and I wandered in this venue. He was a professional, and worked the Vegas and Casino circuits. He was unbelievable. I watched Him hypnotize people to believe that they loved, I mean romantic obsession!!….complete strangers. I saw people believe that they had misplaced BODY PARTS!…AND SEARCH FOR THEM ON THE FLOOR LIKE PUPPY DOGS!…..I saw people believe that they were transported in time to their youth, in a group fashion, and all go for a real roller coaster ride at the amusement park!

    I took the time to interview some of these people afterwards, to see if they were part of the show. They were not! They just came to watch the show, and be entertained, from the local suburbs. Some were, like me, just staying at the hotel, and I saw them the next days at breakfast. they were normal people.

    HERE IS THE KEY!….LISTEN…They believed this fellow. He spoke an “I will do this to you”……and they believed it. Faith comes by hearing! This also is true in the demonic realm. […where would we be if Jesus believed Satan in the temptation in the Wilderness?…}
    This is exactly what they all do! Bentley was famous for his testimonies about angels appearing to him, and bags of gold, and flying to chats with Abraham and back.

    Conner, Jones, King, Bentley and the rest of the wanna be “prophets” all do the same thing. They begin a meeting with a talk….Rodney Howard Brown was an early pioneer in this impish web of deceit and illusion. After they feel they have you reasonably in their palm, that is after you actually believe them; then, they spring the trap. and release the demons. the demons, then, are given authority to enter, the minds of those who have believed their lies. IT IS A SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE!. “for as many who RECEIVED HIM, to them he gave the power to become the SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD!”…..

    It is the same in reverse. If you believe the devil and his words, you then are capable and susceptible to receive him. This is the root of Bentley’s power, and say, Bob Jones, or Conner. This is how “mass hypnosis” can occur. There really is no gold dust, or new teeth. Never, never has there been, that I know of, and if there were, so what? The devil has power too, and let s remember, real prophetic power will follow the anti-Christ himself, to provide real miracles and even fire falling from the sky.

    If illusionists, impish as they may be, can control your mind …[ the NAR prophets]…now, what will you do when the real miracles come, in the name of God? You will die, if you believe them. REMEMBER…..”It is written!..” We must be grounded in the Word, the Bible, and in pure devotion to the Son of God, JESUS, alone, to be able to survive what is coming.

    Crowder is just a nasty up and coming satanist/prophet, who revels in the naivete’ of so called Christians. I would wager that very, very few that attend his meetings the second time, are saved at all, for how could they sit through such grievous blasphemy with Jesus dwelling in their heart? They could not, and would be overwhelmed with disgust, as you or i are. God would cause a grieving in them, as He was grieved.

    Was it Elymas the SORCERER?.. Remember what he had? Everyone thought of him as a “GREAT ONE”, an Elijah figure. That is the reward that these witches get, along with cash. Some may even think that they are of God, but I think most know who they serve, and make no mistake, they are of the “Synagogue of Satan!” Elymas wanted to purchase the power to baptize others in the Holy spirit. Why?….Because he could make more cash, and get more power over others.

    This is what drives these bastards…[to quote a biblical phrase given ti those who refuse the Fathers discipline…] BASTARD SONS AND DAUGHTERS…….[ Crowder is yet a wanna-be..] They have learned some basic witchcraft, and the ignorant and weak fall for it.

    One more thing. The lake of fire, is not just forever. It is for “forever and ever.” Compare that torment, that never ends, to the wonder and bliss of a holy Heaven with Jesus, and the redeemed holy ones, forever…and I almost forgot….EVER!

    “BEHOLD, THE GOODNESS AND SEVERITY OF GOD!”

  15. Thomas,

    Thanks for sharing with us.

    I agree completely with you that the strange happenings in many charismatic meetings (including with the heretics you mention) are the result of crowd manipulation and mass hypnosis. As you say, when in a hypnotic state, people’s senses do not function normally and they will believe anything.

    What I’m less certain about is your suggestion that demonic forces are what give the faith-healers their power. Whilst deception undoubtedly originates with the deceiver, I’m not sure that that there is anything supernatural behind such people – what they do is entiirely natural and basically the same as the hypnotist you saw.

    However, I wouldn’t disagree that some people have definitely been demonised through such meetings, and it is widely accepted that an altered state of consciousness can make people more susceptible to demonic attack.

    I sometimes wonder if the unbiblical worldview of the hyper-charismatics rubs off on us a bit…

  16. anon: Well, i understand what you are saying, and generally agree with you; however, If you watched some of the reactions in Lakeland through Bentley, along with the moaning and writhing and screaming, I think you would agree that it was more than a thin veil of superstitious thought waves.

    There are now many, many sad stories stemming from Bentley, of families and souls tormented, after receiving “ministry” in Lakeland.

    Each and every lying ministry cannot be lumped into the power of Satan, but I assure you that Bentley’s was. He was demonized.

    And, be it “hypnotic” power and influence, or the more “lethal” acts of a demonized preacher, what is the difference if these “altered states of consciousness” cause EVIL to possess one, or just the devils themselves?

    They are in fact, one and the same.

    Demons and angels are real, and it is important and biblical to understand this. The ‘hypercharismatics” did not invent this reality. Jesus did, and the Apostles walked in it, and exercised this authority, and commanded us to do so too. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water.

    “For this reason are they condemned; for they RECEIVED NOT the love of the TRUTH.”

    JESUS

    In the greek, the word for demon possession, would be translated “DEMONIZED”, implying influence outside as much as possessing from the inside. I have personally been involved with some real exorcism in my life.

    Not all “faith healers”…..[ this phrasology is purely Christian, by the way, not relegated to the occult…]

  17. Let me just rephrase a sentence in the above – it didn’t come over the right way and I also made a couple of typos.

    I was wanting to say “Whilst deception undoubtedly originates with the deceiver, I’m not sure that there is anything supernatural about their party tricks – what they do is entirely natural and basically the same as the hypnotist you saw.”

    In other words, whilst a false healer is an agent of the enemy, what they do isn’t black magic but well-understood psychological phenomena.

  18. ……I’m saying that it could be both.

    anyway we both say, AVOID!

  19. Gerald Coates of Pioneer Churches in the UK was spromoting the gold teeth stuff from at least the mid 90s onwards – I seem to recall he claiming to get it from Argentina {the evangelist Claudos Annocondia or however you spell it] and no Toronto. So perhaps this was BEFORE Toronto – my memory is a bit rusty now on this point.

    The BBC did a full length docmentary on Coates and of all the people who claimed gold teeth, and guess what – none, despite all their claims.

    I had a run in with Coates in the 1980s who claimed to not be a kingdom now/dominionist and I took it up with him face to face. He misled me to my face.

  20. ps Gerald Coates has his own English prophetic/apostolic NAR round table.

  21. pps I cannot take the credit for the research on the post on Jane Leade, that was a poster called ‘NOLR History’ who wrote that!

  22. Thomas,

    I think we basically share the same concerns, even if we might express them slightly differently. I agree with you about demonized – the idea of “demon possession” basically results from the KJVs poor translation and isn’t really a biblical concept.

    One thing I feel is very important is that those victims of the Lakeland deception, who were afflicted following ministry, share their painful stories with the world. There are loads of people who believe that Lakeland was a work of God and that Todd Bentley is a fallen hero. We need all the ammo we can to counter the PR and hype and tell people what harm these explosions of evil are doing.

  23. It is the same in reverse. If you believe the devil and his words, you then are capable and susceptible to receive him.

    Tom i totally believe that. Christians today [many of them anyway] refuse to believe that satan possesses power. Or that his words can project power.

    I believe the Holy Spirit showed me something years ago pertaining to this, in the story of Elijah.

    1 Now Ahab told Jezebel everything Elijah had done and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword. 2 So Jezebel sent a messenger to Elijah to say, “May the gods deal with me, be it ever so severely, if by this time tomorrow I do not make your life like that of one of them.” 3 Elijah was afraid [a] and ran for his life. 1kings 19

    This (human) messenger sent by Jezebel was in fact used to deliver a direct satanic threat. While its true that Jezebel was the human sender, the words were ‘anointed’ by satan with his power.

    This is why it carried such an impact when spoken to Elijah. Enough so that it caused the prophet of God to run for his life.

    I also believe this is a good example of how satan’s power can be manifested through words today. satan still has his ‘messengers’…and they too, can speak words carried forth by an ‘unholy anointing’ which projects satan’s power to or upon the hearer. And its horrible to say, but most of them are disguised as God’s messengers, within the church.

    If illusionists, impish as they may be, can control your mind …[ the NAR prophets]…now, what will you do when the real miracles come, in the name of God? You will die, if you believe them.

    REMEMBER…..”It is written!..” We must be grounded in the Word, the Bible, and in pure devotion to the Son of God, JESUS, alone, to be able to survive what is coming.

    Reminds me of a scripture i read today:

    If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?… jer.12:5

    If we become wearied and confused now, unable to discern the real from the false, the Godly from the satanic, then who will be able to stand (contend with horses) when the time comes?

  24. What I’m less certain about is your suggestion that demonic forces are what give the faith-healers their power. Whilst deception undoubtedly originates with the deceiver, I’m not sure that that there is anything supernatural behind such people – what they do is entiirely natural and basically the same as the hypnotist you saw.

    anon, im sure many of them are outright frauds and fakes with nothing supernatural behind their acts. Though i will say, even a fraud or fake may find himself at some point, becoming entangled with unclean spirits because of his/her continuous deceit.

    The same can be said for those using such practices as hypnoses.

    What im afraid we’re seeing today though, are more and more of these false teachers and/or preachers, totally under the power of another spirit. I truly believe Bentley is one. And there are many others.

    There’s a big difference in say a ‘Peter Popoff” [known and proven out right fraud] then say someone like Patricia King or Bentley…

  25. Gerald Coates of Pioneer Churches in the UK was promoting the gold teeth stuff from at least the mid 90s onwards – I seem to recall he claiming to get it from Argentina {the evangelist Claudos Annocondia or however you spell it] and no Toronto. So perhaps this was BEFORE Toronto – my memory is a bit rusty now on this point.

    you made me curious M…so i looked up Gerald Coates. I thought he might have been the guy who visited my old church. LOL… I found his photo…no it wasn’t him.

    Carlos Annocondia…didn’t he use to appear years ago, on TBN? I looked him up too and he looks familiar…

  26. Annacondia! that’s the guy that Bobby Conner travelled with, that my buddy saw when he got his fake golden molar.

    I wonder how these grifters sleep at night?

    Thanks ETPW, and you too, PJ for your insights, and continuing to post expository articles catching the devil with his horns showing.

  27. PJ, someone told me the other day about a church where people saw diamonds. And the pastor told them that God said he was going to give him a ruby as big as his fist. The people were estatic.
    Seems like the devil is tying worship to riches. Just like he told Jesus if you bow down and worship me I’ll give you all the kingdoms of the world (paraphrased)
    Its tragic that so many are running after false worship based on a promise that will never be delivered.

  28. “What I’m less certain about is your suggestion that demonic forces are what give the faith-healers their power. Whilst deception undoubtedly originates with the deceiver, I’m not sure that that there is anything supernatural behind such people – what they do is entiirely natural and basically the same as the hypnotist you saw.”

    There are certain things that happen in these circles that I simply can’t believe do not have a supernatural force behind them. For instance, the reports of people being thrown across the room or being slammed up and down repeatedly. Or how about people rolling UP the stairs?? I can see no other explanation for that type of activity.

  29. Its tragic that so many are running after false worship based on a promise that will never be delivered.

    Pastor Foster, that’s the real tragedy in this whole movement. These folks are always looking for the next manifestation, the next ‘move’ the next “whatever”. I read it in the words they send out. They are always anticipating something ‘new and different’..

    They do not understand that Jesus is the real treasure.

    There are certain things that happen in these circles that I simply can’t believe do not have a supernatural force behind them.

    Charyl i agree. many of the manifestations i’ve seen first hand or watched in clips at youtube (like the one above) are exactly (and i mean exactly!) like demonic manifestations i have witnessed when unclean spirits were being cast out.

  30. Cheryl, I too have heard similar stories, and accept that they seem to defy a rational explanation. But hypnotists can cause people to behave in inexplicable ways as well.

    PJ, I agree that Peter Popoff and Marjoe Gortner were just frauds, and I’m sure there’s many more like them still out there. Others were simply deluded – have you ever read Mark Haville’s testimony? And I also accept that continual involvement in deception can have spiritual consequences.

    Perhaps it would be better to say that, in my view, the majority of high-profile charismatics and pentecostals with “supernatural” ministries are simply hypnotists masquerading as preachers, and we give the enemy too much credit to suggest that what goes on in their meetings results from demonic activities. (Believing in satan too much is just as dangerous as believing in him too little).

    I don’t know about Bentley – I think he’s both severely deceived and a pathological liar (as Robert Ricciadelli said). The fantasy world in which people like him live is so powerful that you come to believe your own lies. I’ve heard it suggested that Benny Hinn is also in this category. There may well be an element of demonization here. However, analysis of Bentley’s and Hinn’s meetings from a psychological viewpoint indicates a consistent pattern of crowd manipulation and mass hypnosis, so I am reluctant to say that most of the “manifestations” are directly demonic.

    I don’t know if you’ve seen this YouTube video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0ZRFPfxSs – I think it’s fair to say that the presenter is a new-age self-improvement “guru”. But isn’t it interesting to note the similarities to charismatic meetings!

    However, there are definitely some instances where demonic activity does seem to be happening. Stacey Campbell’s uncontrollable head-shaking (in a Bentley meeting) was definitely such a case in my view. But I would caution about being hasty to make this conclusion in every case.

  31. This is interesting

    Alchemical gold was the Golden Fleece sought by Jason and the Argonauts as well as the Golden Apples secured by Hercules. Laurence Gardner wrote in Genesis of the Grail Kings that the succession of Grail kings, from Cain onward, derived their divine powers from the ingestion of alchemical gold.

    “…the alchemical and scientific process…facilitates the genesis of the Grail Kings. This line of succession from Cain, through Egypt to King David and onward to Jesus, was purpose-bred to be the earthly Purveyors of the Light. They were the true Sons of the Gods, who were fed firstly on Anunnaki Star Fire from about 3800 BC and, subsequently, on ‘high-spin’ metal supplements from about 2000 BC. In short, they were bred to be leaders of humankind, and they were both mentally and physically maintained in the ‘highward’ state: the ultimate dimension of the missing 44 per cent — the dimension of the Orbit of Light, or the Plane of Sharon.” – 742

    The Plane of Sharon is regarded by alchemists as the plane of light or enlightenment, where the mind and spirit are not imprisoned by matter.

    “Gold is the most noble of metals and was always representative of Truth. Through the regular use of Anunnaki Star Fire (the Gold of the Gods) the recipients had been moved into realms of heightened awareness and consciousness because of its inherent melatonin and serotonin.

    “This was the realm of advanced enlightenment which was called the Plane of Sharon (a style later corrupted and misapplied to the coastal Plain of Sharon in Israel), and the Star Fire gold was deemed to be the ultimate route to the Light. Hence, the heavy, mundane person (lead) could be elevated to a heightened state of awareness (perceived as gold), and this was the root of all alchemical lore thereafter.” – 741

    Alchemists believe that the ingestion of white powdered gold alters the DNA in such as way as to release the body from matter. David Hudson is a popular Merovingian and alchemist who advises that ingesting the white powder for nine months, following a forty day fast, would transform a person into a light being. Following the trail of the current alchemical gold fever leads back in time to the Society of Ormus, the antecedent of the Prieuré de Sion. ‘Ormus’ means light, or enlightenment, which is the alchemical gold.

    “Gold has long been called the metal of wisdom by the Illuminati…[who] are well aware of the alchemical quest to create the correct type of gold which will bring enlightenment to the world… David Hudson…of the deGuise lineage…patented white [powdered] gold [which he] named…Ormus [or Ormes], which is the occult name for the Prieuré de Sion… David Hudson has given mankind the most important secret that has captivated the best minds of the occult world for centuries, the Quest for the Philosopher’s Stone.” 49:321

  32. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491044,00.html

    Interesting at how after Crowder came and went, the nation has a terrible disaster.

  33. Yes, that’s very interesting!

    Doesn’t it make you wonder about what gets let loosed in these meetings, and ‘could it possibly’ cause disasters like this?

    In the other thread about Clement’s latest prophecy i noted it had been given out in Oklahoma, days before this weeks disastrous and deadly ‘strange February’ tornado hit.

    Are these just coincidences? maybe… but then again maybe not!

  34. The good thing about Crowder and co. is that they are fairly well outed as being even fringe for self-respecting Pentecostals/Charismatics. Lee Grady recently mentioned Crowderite tactics in his blog and even the dynamic duo (Dunn and Crowder) have been forced to make some Youtube disclaimers as they notice their followers acting more and more like the religious sectarians that they are.

  35. Maybe when any of these charlatans, disguised satanists, magicians, etc., are scheduled to come to a city, the true church should rise up and tell them we don’t want in our area. Bombard them with emails or letters and protest. Also, warn the churches that are hosting them. And pray always for God’s mercy and forgiveness and protection.

  36. Someone may be interested in this. Its a video clip sent to me by Bud Press.

    New Ecstatics Conference approved by German Theologian

    Here is this “theologians’ website:

    http://www.preparethebride.de.tl/

    Its this type of stuff which concerns me the most..that Crowder’s insanity (his demoniacally inspired blasphemy!) is being taken all around the world. I mean listen to this dude in Germany!

    Crowder and Dunn have been visiting places all over the globe with their demons. Just in the last few months i know they’ve been in Scotland, Indonesia, Korea, England, and Lord knows where else! Those are only the places im aware of…

    The good thing about Crowder and co. is that they are fairly well outed as being even fringe for self-respecting Pentecostals/Charismatics.

    If some of my elderly pentecostal friends knew about these nuts and watched 60 seconds of one of their clips, they would be left speechless–especially once told of the huge following these guys have. These guys are soooo far out on the fringe that ‘regular pentecostal church folks’ unless they’re youtube savvy, don’t even know they exist.

  37. PJ,

    I’m from England and it distresses me greatly that these heretics have come to our country peddling their demonic doctrines.

    Fortunately, the situation over here is similar to what you describe. They are so far outside the mainstream that most people haven’t even heard of them, let alone knew they’ve visited us. Long may it stay this way.

    But do they really have a huge following as you claim? I’m not so sure – as you also say, they are on the extreme fringe. And full credit to Lee Grady for condemning them.

    However, I do agree with your comment about “elderly pentecostal friends”. I’m not that old, but many people, myself included, who’ve been in the pentecostal or charismatic movements since the 1970s or 1980s, view with horror many of the things that seem to characterise these groupings today. Whether it’s word of faith/prosperity gospel/money-grabbing televangelism, the remodelling of christianity as a self-improvement strategy, or the explosion of false teaching and fake signs and wonders, none of these things were commonplace in the past.

    I know there’s a tendency to look back through rose-tinted glasses, but I have to say that a return to the values of previous years might be a good thing.

  38. The thing that scares me is people become accepting of some thing , a ‘little leaven” if you will and eventually that first little pill that’s hard to swallow gets easier. This seemed so far out to me when I first saw it, but many months later we hear of estatic worship (patricia king) trance dancing in churches, pagan type drums, the list goes on and on and we end up with people being slowly accepting of even this. I know it sounds far fetched, but years ago David Wilkerson said people would end up having orgies on the church. Now we see Ed Young Jr. and Marc Driscoll among others discussing things in Church that would make a sailor blush, so I am going to have the mind set that ANYTHING is possible in the modern day church. Lord Jesus help us!

  39. I think John Crowder may be much more well known in the third wave/prophetic circles than we want to admit. I have seen his name linked with Patricia King, James Goll, Heidi Baker, Georgian Banov and if I remember correctly, Todd Bentley.

    Here is the link to one conference that was advertised for last fall where several of these names were “ministering” together: http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=message&task=view&MID=8B007F5E&GroupID=ST00TPN0

    Doesn’t seem to me that he is considered that much a fringe element in these circles.

  40. Just a further thought here. I think John Crowder and company are likely just the next stage in the progression of this insanity after Todd Bentley. The Lord made sure that Todd was stopped–but not until after a huge amount of people were affected by him. I hope the same isn’t true of Crowder.

  41. I know there’s a tendency to look back through rose-tinted glasses, but I have to say that a return to the values of previous years might be a good thing.

    Yes, i know. Maybe its my age and/or perhaps it is looking back and only recalling the good, but i sure miss the way things use to be.

    I’ve come to the conclusion its never going to be that way again…we’re just going to see things grow worse as far as the truth being twisted & turned upside down, and more spiritual fringe groups rising up, until Jesus returns.

    But do they really have a huge following as you claim?

    They sure appear to have one… I read over at Crowders website once in awhile, and it seems they are always on the go, holding conferences somewhere. Its just a thought but i think he and Dunn have really found an audience among the youth and young adults: and that they and their demonic message has filled a need in these young people; One which the church (as it is today) sadly did not …

  42. PJ you are right, these guys are all over the world. So somebody is paying to see and support them and their “ministries” . I have a hard time using that word to describe what they do as a ministry, even in jest. It takes a lot of money to fly all over the world. Somehow I doubt these two ghost tokers have day jobs. Although (forgive me Lord) would take a little glee in hearing crowder say “would you like fries with that”.

  43. B you’re right. It does take a lot of money to travel all over the world.

    I also have a problem referring to what these guys do as ministry–i feel the same way about what that gaggle of false prophets at E-List and elsewhere do. its not ministry its a career.

    These guys have made a career out of promoting the Church as a freak show. The product they ‘sell’ is blasphemy. They must be doing ok…it doesn’t appear they’re hurting for money.

  44. Makes you sick doesn’t it? Honest people having a hard time putting food on the table and this bunch…whatever they are flying all over the world.

  45. “The church is a freak show, and the product they sell is blasphemy.”

    Wow! PJ. That is one powerful Word, and deeply true.

    It is like Pandora’s Box…the itch to just peek into the mumbling Myst…I agree with the comments that suggest that Dunn and Crowder are outed, but that is only to American Evangelical “Disciples”; committed and fruitful Christianity. To the fringe, or seeking public, or foreign venues, they could be seen as radical believers.

    I trust though, that only the cursed of the Lord will succumb to the thinly veiled Satanic occultism. Pray that God would shut their mouths, and deliver His saints, wherever they may go, as we should wherever ANY of the NAR crowd goes.

  46. I would be interested in hearing if anyone who received the gold teeth fillings had the same experience as I did. In the middle of the 1990’s my husband and I went to a revival service in Eureka Springs Mo. I received a gold filling, in the shape of a cross, the whole works! A few years later however, I had to have the same tooth pulled. It was the worst toothache I had ever had. The tooth had rotted. Not surprising. The whole show is rotten, corrupt, and causes tremendous pain. I speak from experience…..Connie tinnin

  47. Connie: I received a gold cap underneath an enamel covered cap. The original metal was silvertoned but don’t know what it was;looked like stainless steel? Had it since I was a kid so I don’t know. Also received silver fillings in the shape of a cross. My oldest son, who was backslidden at the time and still is, says his old fillings disappeared and became white. This was in a meeting with a pastor from Australia named Bill Pryor. Fairly unknown. His daughter sings beautiful worship music and they claim gold dust covers her when she sings sometimes. I didn’t see that when she sang on one of their visits. His wife died of cancer a year or two ago.

    Since getting out of all of the WOF/mysticism I have repented and asked God to take away the gold cap and silver fillings(I was told by my hygienist a few years ago they are loose and need replacing). And have asked Him to take away the other “false signs” from my son and husband, who said his fillings turned gold and silver also.

    This stuff is real and I would have thought it fake too. We weren’t the only ones in that meeting to get gold/silver/or new teeth. I saw it with my own eyes and photos were taken. Weirdly enough though, Bill Pryor had kind of bad teeth….go figure.

  48. Yeah, about Bill Pryor’s wife dying of cancer. It seems like several “stars” of the gold dust show died of cancer. Thank the Lord I had to have the tooth extracted. I want none of that hellish whatever it is that is being touted as gold in my body, falling anywhere near me or anyone I love. It is truly from the pits of hell, and God is His mercy has allowed those truly seeking Him and not the Glitz to be delivered, healed, and on the narrow Way again. What a testimony huh? Cancer, Rotten Teeth, and Greed. The fruit of the spirit of Hell.

  49. Why gold dust?

    While doing a little Bible study I looked up the word “gold” in a concordance. I was surprised to find the word Gold mentioned 404 times. In comparison, the word joy is mentioned 214 times and the word peace is mentioned 231 times. Gold figures prominently in the first and last books of the Bible being mentioned initially in the second chapter of Genesis and lastly in the second to the last chapter of Revelations. The author of the book of Genesis takes care to mention that the river that watered Eden, the Pishon, was from a land of abundant gold. God made Abraham rich with gold. The first presents given to Jesus was gold. Most of the furniture of the Holy of Holies in Moses tabernacle were constructed out of Gold, the walls of the room itself were covered in Gold. Even the streets of Heaven are paved with gold. Evidently gold is so plentiful in Heaven that it becomes the new asphalt. No wonder when people spend time in the presence of the Lord they frequently are dusted with gold.

    • I know this is a very old post but i needed to add my two cents for “Rick”…

      Rick.

      When Jesus Christ says He is the “chief cornerstone” of the “Foundation of the (OT) Prophets and (NT) Apostles” who wrote the OT and the NT, infallibly, what does that mean?

      What does a cornerstone do in a building?

      It determines the “angles” and “parameters” and “perimeters” and boundaries of — not only the Foundation of a building — but of the entire Building (the church) itself.

      So, keeping in mind this “Chief Cornerstone” idea of Jesus…

      … if the Foundation is the words of the OT Prophets and the NT Apostles…

      then the building is built UPON their words.

      with Christ as chief cornerstone.

      The cornerstone idea is imperative because this relates to experiences, signs and wonders and other visitations that would occur through time in the building, the Church.

      We are forbidden to go “outside the parameters” of the Foundation.

      We are forbidden to “add to the Word of God”

      We are forbidden to twist the Word of God

      We are forbidden to amend the Word of God

      This is because there is one truth behind the Word of God, and God would NEVER contradict Himself, even in signs and wonders.

      God ALWAYS confirms what He does. Either by the Word of God or by other means.

      God will always be PLEASED to confirm what He is doing.

      He is never nebulous, or vague, or misleading with His words and works. Or with His signs and wonders.

      For example, if someone is raised from the dead, (as Todd Bentley claimed 32 people were at Lakeland) there is no question about it. They are RAISED FROM THE DEAD by GOD. There is no hemming and hawing, there is no question. It is a miracle, that God has given to us and for us to see His glory.

      I will tell you, the “gold dust deception is real. I have seen it in NOLR NAR churches, on people who are particularly demonized. It comes over them and then goes. It is a Satanic miracle of deception, they think it is God. It does not last, but lasted long enough to convince these people that it was a “sign from God”.

      They are completely deceived.

      Remember Rick, God will never use a sign or a wonder or an element or symbol even in a dream or a vision that is not verifiable in His Word. Remember how magnificent His word is…

      … it is God Himself, alive and active to reveal every hidden motive.

      Use it to test the spirits of the NOLR or NAR. You will be surprised how God reveals the truth about these counterfeit liars like John Crowder and Bill Johnson and the Toronto deception.

      P.S. John Wimber died because he would not judge the heresy of the Toronto Kansas City Liars.

      He was “tolerating” Jezebel and false teaching and false prophecy.

      Ken Gulliksen, God Bless him, tried to reprimand Bob Jones for his baal worshipping perversion (prophesying over people while he was molesting them) but also was stricken when he could not or would not stand up to Rick Joyner who “restored” Bob Jones after his sexual perversion.

      God is not pleased when leadership will not properly “bind and loose” in authoritative decision making that is the normal part of church governance. To bind and loose means, of course, to forbid and permit and this is what Moses did when he judged the every day squabbles of the hebrews and got so tired out. Binding and loosing has to do with establishing the truth in interchurch conflict; and when it is not properly done, anarchy and lovelessness reign in churches. I’ll bet Bill Johnson will not do Matthew 18 as required in a church setting… this is one of the ways Jezebel gets let loose in a church.

  50. No wonder when people spend time in the presence of the Lord they frequently are dusted with gold.

    Rick, then why are there no instances of Paul, Peter, John etc being sprinkled with “gold dust”? In fact why are there no instances of Jesus, while here, tossing around this dust either?

    Point being, its not in the scriptures.

    What you may find interesting is the one instance when gold dust [ground up gold] is mentioned, it is used as a judgment upon the disobedient idolaters:

    Exodus 32:

    1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

    2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

    3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

    4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

    6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

    7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

    8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    9And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

    10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

    11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

    12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

    13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

    14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    15And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.

    16And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

    17And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

    18And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

    19And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

    20And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

    Something to think about…

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