22 Comments

Who are the 144,000 in Revelation?


It is not uncommon for people to believe the appearance of the 144,000 is something yet to happen in the future. I have met individuals who felt they were called “to train the 144,000”. One had purchased property in the desert for this purpose, another a large ranch in the mountains. Back in the early 1950’s a preacher with a large following, taught that he would be instrumental in raising up “144,000 manifested sons of God”.

Probably the most popular and widely circulated interpretation at the present is the 144,000 will not make their appearance until the last seven years of this age. It is claimed they, like 144,000 “Jewish Pauls” will preach the gospel of the kingdom unto all the world – “after the church is gone”. We believe there are serious scriptural objections to this view. (Ralph Woodrow, His Truth is Marching On, chapter 5

Who are the 144,000 in Revelation?

By Kevin Daly at Messianic Good News

“Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. (2) And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. (3) And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (4) These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first-fruits to God and the Lamb. (5) No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.” (Revelation 14:1-5)

The fourteenth chapter of the Book of Revelation contains a vision of a hundred and forty-four thousand companions of the glorified Messiah. These are they who were redeemed from the earth, who did not defile themselves with women and are virgins.[1] In chapter seven, we see that the same hundred and forty-four thousand are sealed, spared from the wrath of God, and joined with “a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language,” before God’s throne in heaven.[2]

Interpretation

The writers of the New Testament often allude to events and practices recorded in the Old Testament. The few verses cited above contain at least ten references of this nature, including the first-fruits of God (Jer. 2:3), redemption (Ex. 6:6), Mount Zion (Isa. 35:10), the census of Israel (Num. 1:17 and following), and a name or mark applied to the forehead (Ezek. 9:4). Knowledge of the Old Testament is thus required to interpret the New. The New Testament claims moreover to be the perfection or fulfilment of that contained in the Law as types and shadows.[3] References to Old Testament events and practices may thus be intended to mean the New Testament realities that now overshadow them – and this possibility should always be considered.

Prophecy is moreover written in allegoric and symbolic language, and a crass literal interpretation is usually inappropriate. “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned”.[4]

These principles are thus applied in relation to the hundred and forty-four thousand.

The Revelation to the apostle John was apparently given to comfort and encourage faithful Christians at a time of almost unbearable persecution. While persecution continued from the time of the Crucifixion, onward, it was executed with extraordinary zeal and cruelty during the times of Nero and Domitian,[5] and in Palestine believing Jews who refused to follow the false messiah, Bar Kohba, appointed by Rabbi Akiva and his school, were executed for high treason.[6]

John is shown visions of God’s impending judgments against an unbelieving world, deliberately set against Him and His children. From the viewpoint of eternity, the martyrs are sealed, cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and secure in God’s presence – while wave upon wave of God’s wrath is poured out upon the earth, until its final consummation.

The Psalmist confessed:

“Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. But as for me, my feet had almost slipped; I had nearly lost my foothold. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked … Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure; in vain have I washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been plagued; I have been punished every morning … When I tried to understand all this, it was oppressive to me till I entered the sanctuary of God; then I understood their final destiny. Surely you place them on slippery ground; you cast them down to ruin.” [7]

It is this exact conclusion that the Book of Revelation makes inevitable for the faithful. While it seems from the temporal perspective that the enemies of God vanquish His servants, their suffering is but momentary when viewed from eternity. Not even death conquers them, for “we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence”.[8]

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: ‘For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.’ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord”.[9]

The Lord encourages the faithful: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell”.[10]

Israel the first-fruits

God’s purpose from the origins of creation was to gain, for His own glory, a portion of mankind, to unite these with Himself, and then in the culmination and fulfilment of His purpose, to live with them in eternity. The Lord’s plan is implemented in stages. First the descendents of Abraham are brought near to God under the Sinai covenant. Subsequently, Messiah and his gospel are revealed as the fulfilment of the Law, and God’s ministry of reconciliation spreads out to all nations.

Israel as constituted under the Sinai covenant is consequently described as the first-fruits of God:

“ Israel was holy to the LORD, the first-fruits of his harvest”.[11]

The faithful of Israel is then appointed as God’s ‘servant’, “a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth”.[12] This task was eventually accomplished by the Jewish apostles of Messiah, soon after his coming. After the vision of the hundred and forty-four thousand, the apostle John sees, “another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth – to every nation, tribe, language and people…”.[13] This reveals the means by which the “great multitude which no-one could count” that appears with the hundred and forty four thousand before the throne in heaven, is gathered.

Redemption

In the provision to each Jewish household of a Passover lamb, and the application of the blood, Israel was redeemed from Egypt in a manner that prefigured the final redemption. The nation then existed for a thousand years under the Law of Moses, until the ‘Lamb of God’ appeared.

The redemption from Egypt nurtured the expectation of a future, final redemption,[14] but this redemption did not amount to a further release from Gentile oppression, as generally understood, but rather as a release from the bondage to sin which avoids reconciliation with God and prevents the perfect society in which God’s will alone, be done.

The ultimate redemption that Jesus wrought on the cross applied retrospectively as much as it did prospectively. Jesus died also for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – and those of their posterity who lived in obedience to God in Old Testament times, in anticipation of their Saviour. Jesus is described as the ‘once for all’ sacrifice[15] who by the manner of his death was also ‘accursed under the Law,’ in order to redeem those who had sinned against Moses, from the curse of the Law.[16]

At the time of Jesus’ death,

“the tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people”.[17]

These self-same righteous souls are no doubt among the number that appears before the heavenly throne in Revelation fourteen, as “first-fruits to God and the Lamb”.

Continued Here 

22 comments on “Who are the 144,000 in Revelation?

  1. Quite a long article. There are a lot of things, it seems to me to be missing from it. That the 144,000 were to be clearly identified in the article is a let down. I guess I was just curious if he was going to clearly identify them!🙂

    Several things though. His conclusion that they are there with Christ, whenever they left or will leave their physical body to join to Him, is novel to me as well and it seems to me to be a very reasonable way of thinking about them, the 144,000.

    Just doing a sin assessment of myself excludes me being one of them!

    I liked his understanding of stopping the work of the Law by the destruction of the Temple! Hadn’t thought that way before about it so that was insightful for me. It’s quite clear if you don’t have Moses’ tabernacle and altar, or the first and second Temple or what was the so called Temple of Jesus’ day, how does one keep the sacrifices? Those temples and tent weren’t what it was all about anyway. They just solidified the reality of the sacrifice of Christ made on the True altar that is eternal and not made with hands: Heb 9:8 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing
    Heb 9:9 (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper,
    Heb 9:10 but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
    Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
    Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

    Also I am convinced that there should have been a majoring on these Words, but, hey, I’m not the guy who wrote the article published in here for us to consider after reading: Heb 11:12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.
    Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
    Heb 11:14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.
    Heb 11:15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return.
    Heb 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

    I am convinced that the Children of God, predestined, ordained, elected and called lived and will live faithfully throughout their generation no matter what was or is up with the civil realm.

    Moses was shown the Spiritual Kingdom and was given an Architectural rendering of it as was King David who showed his to Solomon and then Ezekiel, too. Ezekiel was given the same rendering. Why I say what I do above proffering the Hebrews 11:12-16 passages is because of the last verse in Ezekiel: Eze 48:35 The circumference of the city shall be 18,000 cubits. And the name of the city from that time on shall be, The LORD Is There.”

    Finally when it comes to the purity issue in his article I noticed he didn’t refer to these Words, which, in hind sight for anyone pondering the question of their own purity and staying pure through and through by the laws he refers too, they make it near impossible for anyone to stay pure basis those laws:2Sa 22:25 And the LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to my cleanness in his sight.
    2Sa 22:26 “With the merciful you show yourself merciful; with the blameless man you show yourself blameless;
    2Sa 22:27 with the purified you deal purely, and with the crooked you make yourself seem tortuous.
    2Sa 22:28 You save a humble people, but your eyes are on the haughty to bring them down.

    Purity is from God. Given the Holy Spirit living within us is about as pure as one is going to get this side of Heaven. Now, being made the Temple of the Holy Spirit, for Christ to come and live inside and then Our Heavenly Father living inside Him, who is inside us, well that’s a triple down purity thing this side of Heaven if I say so myself!

    • “Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. (2) And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. (3) And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (4) These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first-fruits to God and the Lamb. (5) No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.” (Revelation 14:1-5)

      Hi Michael!

      What i understood from the teaching boiled down to what i highlighted in the scriptures above, that the 144,000 (as the word states) were the first-fruits.

      They were purchased from among men and offered as first-fruits to God and the Lamb.

      The early converts were comprised of Israelites only, and the 144,000 are stated to have been taken from the 12 tribes; Revelation 7:4. These first converts would be considered the first-fruits. This is contrary to what teachers who teach a specific form of theology/eschatology claim: dispensationalism teaches these are Jews who will come to follow Jesus in the last days. This cannot be correct, for if it were true they would be referred to as the ‘last-fruits’…not first-fruits.

  2. This is a really good article. I agree with a great deal of it. Daly points out that there is a very high number of references to the Old Testament in the book of Revelation (even in the text he quotes from), and then makes this excellent point:

    The New Testament claims moreover to be the perfection or fulfilment of that contained in the Law as types and shadows. References to Old Testament events and practices may thus be intended to mean the New Testament realities that now overshadow them – and this possibility should always be considered.

    Amen. I believe that this truth is repeatedly illustrated in the book of Revelation, and I never really saw it during my days of embracing dispensationalist futurism.

    Echoing what Daly said about the parallel events recorded by Ezekiel and John prior to both of Jerusalem’s awful judgments, Steve Gregg, in his book, “Revelation: Four Views (A Parallel Commentary),” had this to say:

    Jerusalem twice fell to invaders because of God’s judgment upon them: first, in 586 B.C., to the Babylonians; and second, in A.D. 70, to the Romans. Prior to the conquest in 586 B.C., God took care to identify His own and to separate them for safety during the holocaust. This fact was symbolically portrayed to Ezekiel in a vision of an angel marking God’s faithful with an ink mark on their foreheads. Following this marking, six angels with deadly weapons were dispatched against Jerusalem to slaughter its inhabitants (Ezekiel 9).

    Here a similar vision is given to John prior to the second destruction of Jerusalem in his own day. This time, before the four winds (v. 1) are unleashed upon Israel, God’s servants are sealed on their foreheads for their preservation… Those who survived the holocaust of A.D. 70 were those who possessed the seal of God (Eph. 1:13), that is, the Jewish believers in Christ (pp. 126, 128).

    I also really like Daly’s treatment of the reference to the 144,000 as “virgins,” and the way he compared Scripture with Scripture along New Covenant lines as he taught why they were described by this term.

    I also very much agree with what Daly said (and what you said as well, PJ) about the reference to the 144,000 as “firstfruits for God and the Lamb” (Revelation 14:4). This could only apply to the early church. For any other generation, including our own, to go by this title, it would not make sense logically. This also lines up with what James, the brother of Jesus, said. First noting that he wrote “to the twelve tribes in the Dispersion” (James 1:1), James makes this statement:

    “Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creation” (James 1:18).

    There are a couple of things, however, on which I don’t agree with Daly. One is his belief in “the end of the new covenant period.” My understanding of Scripture leads me to believe that the New Covenant age is synonymous with the long-awaited kingdom of God, which has been fully established and is said to be everlasting and never to be replaced. I also don’t see where Scripture teaches a yet-to-come worldwide judgment on non-Jews, which was foreshadowed by the first century judgment on apostate Israel.

    That doesn’t put a sour taste in my mouth about this article, though. It’s really good stuff, and Daly has become one of my favorite writers.

    • That’s an excellent summery Adam…thank you!🙂

      Kevin Daly and Peter Cohen are both listed among my favorite writers. Their messages at Messianic Good News have been so helpful to me the last few years.

      I also very much agree with what Daly said….about the reference to the 144,000 as “firstfruits for God and the Lamb” (Revelation 14:4). This could only apply to the early church. For any other generation, including our own, to go by this title, it would not make sense logically. This also lines up with what James, the brother of Jesus, said. First noting that he wrote “to the twelve tribes in the Dispersion” (James 1:1), James makes this statement:

      “Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creation” (James 1:18).

      Amen. First means first…not last.

  3. Adam,

    you write: “… My understanding of Scripture leads me to believe that the New Covenant age is synonymous with the long-awaited kingdom of God, which has been fully established and is said to be everlasting and never to be replaced. …”

    That doesn’t seem to make any sense to me putting it in a beginning and ending context.

    How is the “new” covenant age synonymous with something that is “everlasting”?

    What came first, the Law or the Gospel? The legal matter of circumcision came after the Gospel message to Abraham, right?

    It seems to me, also, using a word like “replaced” implies the Everlasting Kingdom of which Ezekiel is dealing with, that Kingdom where “The Lord is there” is something else than the creation, these present created heavens and earth, whereby God can point too and testify about His Everlasting Present and Kingdom through His Prophets.

    I hope I am making some sense here and am hopeful you will pick up my inquiries and comment on them?

    • How is the “new” covenant age synonymous with something that is “everlasting”?

      Perhaps im not understanding Michael…but aren’t we told the new covenant is everlasting?

      Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant (hebrews 13: 20)

    • Hi Michael,

      Thanks for your questions, and I apologize for taking a while to reply. I’ve been really busy the last couple of days.

      I’ve looked now at this conversation, but I’m not quite sure I understand what you’re saying either. What did I put “in a beginning and ending context”? I believe you’re referring to the word “everlasting,” which I used in my statement that you quoted, but I’m not sure what you mean.

      I did mean to say that [1] the new covenant and [2] God’s kingdom are everlasting. By that, I mean God established this covenant and this kingdom at a certain point in time, and (according to Scripture) they are to last forever. That’s why I don’t agree with Daly’s reference to “the end of the new covenant period.” What period (or age) does he believe will follow the period/age we are in now? Will that period involve a different covenant? These are questions raised in my mind when I read that statement. Perhaps it’s a matter of semantics on his part, or word choice. Perhaps it’s also due to a difference (not a large one, but still a difference) in his eschatology and mine.

      PJ mentioned a good example from Hebrews 13:20 of how the New Testament presents the new covenant as established forever (to be everlasting, without end). The same is said of God’s kingdom. For example:

      [1] “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.” (Daniel 2:44)

      [2] “But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.” (Daniel 7:18; see also verse 22)

      [3] “Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.” (Daniel 7:27; see also Matthew 21:43)

      [4] “Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe…” (Hebrews 12:28)

      Is our dialogue on track?🙂 Let me know, and I’ll be happy to continue.

      Thank you, PJ, for your input as well.

      By the way, Michael, I agree with your linking of Ezekiel 47 and Revelation 22 as parallel texts. I personally believe it to be a picture of the church at this very time. Because of Christ’s work on the cross, we have access to that river of life, and those healing leaves have been given to us as well. If only we were more known for offering those leaves to the nations for their healing than for advocating for war and such…

  4. PJ,

    you turned it around. I started my thinking with regard to this topic of the 144,000 from the everlasting point of view. When did God start thinking being Eternal?

    God started something (the present created heavens and earth) and gave Jesus it’s name, and appointed Him His name to be as “the beginning and the end”, “the first and the last”, “the Alpha and Omega” of it.

    Looking at it as a creature who has his beginning before the foundation of the world, Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love …”. I want to look at these things on earth from another point of view, that one, “as one chosen from before the foundation of the world”.

    When something is “tagged” as everlasting or eternal as in everlasting covenant, eternal inheritance, eternal redemption, eternal life, eternal damnation and I start with that something else is conveyed to me. At some point in the time scale I no longer look at this knowledge and understanding of what is everlasting and eternal from a time scale point of view. I am lifted out of it into the eternal place as one of His children.

    So, as to my point about the 144,000 would be to assign that identity to them as well as to myself. Both, the 144,000 were chosen before the foundation of the world as I and you and Adam and and and to the number of the Elect, who are already enrolled in Heaven and were chosen before the foundation of the world to be here in the world that has its beginning and will one day, an appointed day, end.

    Things that are first are first and those things that are last are last as in the first breath breathed and the last breath breathed. Somewhere between those two facts we came into being to breathe and so do each of the 144,000 even though both of us, them and us, were known before the foundation of the world.

    For me, that compels me to enter into the Sabbath Rest that remains for the People of God to enter into, ceasing from self work because God has a better Work prepared for me before the foundation of the world and exists already, a Work known about before I first began walking by the Faith once delivered to the Saints as His workman.

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    What I am saying is the “new covenant” age isn’t an age at all. It is the Kingdom of God and in this age we, known before the foundation of the world have an opportunity to come into what already exists, God’s Eternal Kingdom which is what Ezekiel was being shown to write about and what the writer of Hebrews is getting at when we read about it in Hebrews 9.

    Let me finish off with this one point I want to come back to, something Adam touched on when associating how Daly incorporated a lot of the Old Testament in the book of Revelation.

    I had seen this very clearly in the past as I do now making the connection to Ezekiel’s vision to John’s with these words:

    Eze 47:12 And on the banks, on both sides of the river, there will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither, nor their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because the water for them flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for healing.”
    ……………………………………………………………………………………….

    Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
    Rev 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    • Michael, you lost me! aha!🙂

      I must have misunderstood your question to Adam. Its probably better if he responds.

  5. Pj,

    don’t worry about being lost. We can read and believe this: Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
    Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
    Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
    Mat 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
    Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
    Mat 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

    But, yes, I would like to hear from Adam and see if I lost him too?🙂

    • OK,🙂

      Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
      Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
      Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
      Mat 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
      Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
      Mat 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

      Amen!!!

  6. PJ,

    I would add some more verses from 2 Chronicles and the words recorded the Queen of Sheba said to King Solomon:

    “2Ch 9:8 Blessed be the LORD your God, who has delighted in you and set you on his throne as king for the LORD your God! Because your God loved Israel and would establish them forever, he has made you king over them, that you may execute justice and righteousness.”

    Notice “who” is doing “what”. I believe the Queen had no idea what she was saying but rather the Holy Spirit put those words on her heart to speak forth and be recorded for our sake upon whom these sorts of questions have come, as in, “who are the 144,000”?

    Those words are similar to the words the Prophet Nathan gave to King David from the LORD. See 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17.

    Although “all” kingdoms ruled by kings and governments ruled by Prime Ministers, Dictators or Presidents are under the subjection of Christ there is simply “one” kingdom only that the Bible isolates identifying among all kingdoms and governments as representative of the Eternal Kingdom and that one kingdom is Israel. That “kingdom” has, in full effect, served the purposes of God “already” in that King Jesus, born of a virgin, has come into the world through her (the kingdom) already to fulfill the eternal purposes of God, and has, then, too, ascended to His Eternal Throne in His Eternal Kingdom, a throne and kingdom that is “inside” His Father’s Eternal Kingdom, now sitting next to His Father’s Eternal Throne to ultimately destroy all rule, power and authority not His own through His Eternal Kingdom, the Church!

    Wow.

    1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
    1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
    1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
    1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
    1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
    1Co 15:27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
    1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

  7. Adam,

    thank you for your kindness and kind responses.

    I believe we are on the same page. I would move a bit further down the road then.

    When I am praying “thy kingdom come and thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven” I am praying to the Eternal God asking for something that is “everlasting and eternal to happen in a world that has a beginning and end. What does it mean, then to exist in something that has a “beginning and an end” when you exist before it?

    My point is simple. It takes a revelation of the Spirit of Grace by His sanctifying work for me to understand that though I can cite and so can my father and mother with the delivering doctor and nurses the very minute and hour and day and year I was born “into” this realm which has a beginning and an end I existed before that time. Being able to say that, though, does nothing to undercut “who” I am in God before the foundation of the world and this present heavens and earth.

    When we use the “knowledge” espousing “knowing” and clearly identifying “who” one or all of those 144,000 are, we have to begin from Heaven’s realm not earth’s. To the guy I read about who, it is recorded of him thought he was “appointed” to train those 144,000 I say, wait just a minute. If God describes those 144,000 to be virgins and innocent as the Scriptures describe them to be in this world, this created heavens and earth, having a beginning and end what does that make you but someone with more influence with God, more purity and intelligence than they? No, I think not; I think that guy has got a big ego with a not just a few screws loose upstairs to even consider such a calling to teach anything to the 144,000.

    I am little by little, here and there, a little each day, as the days go by, day after day, being converted from having a mindset that has a beginning down here to having a mindset of my beginning in God before the foundation of the world, instead. That can take some getting use too, if you know what I mean?

    To try to assist in comprehending what I mean I will repeat a request made to some folks that helps me keep focused and moving in one direction into eternity and not two.

    Dr. J Sidlow Baxter, a theologian of our era, who passed into eternity some years back, asked a group of folks gathered to hear him speak to think about eternity a certain way. He said, do this. Stop right now and begin to think backwards into eternity and see how far back you can go mentally before your mind cannot handle it anymore. At that point in your thinking, then turn your mind around and begin thinking into eternity in the future, that is, moments, days, weeks, years and so on as you are growing older.

    Well, I did that experiment and discovered that the first time I was able to think for a long long into time and history back into eternity passed. When I finally came to my senses I realized what he was teaching, that is, we were created to live by the Faith of Christ given to us thinking into the future only, thinking into the future and eternity from a Biblical framework.

    Now, after several times doing that experiment, I found I cannot think long anymore into eternity passed and then I just stop that and focus on the future and accept what the Bible teaches about me that I was simply foreknown before the foundation of the world, a creature created before the foundation of the world and through Christ by One Spirit I come before God. Now I look forward approaching God by prayer. Now I focus on a daily walk. Now I look forward to realizing God’s Will for today walking with Him trusting that if I make it to tomorrow tomorrow will be today all over again a walk with Him.

    Also I discovered that when I start thinking about God in the way Satan got Eve to start thinking about God or I start doing a self assessment of my own personal shortcomings, failures and lingering sin I become hostile and temperamental, something I abhor now because it robs me of the Peace the Sabbath Rest entered into brings my soul, too, which is for those who are called to live by His Faith as His workman created in Christ Jesus for good works.

    Recently the Spirit has given me some understand I hadn’t had before the understanding came to me from this verse and I emphasize the word “granted”: Rev_19:8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”– for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

    Having said all that I was focusing on two words in the citation, the word “age” and “replaced”. When I think about the new covenant, I don’t think about it in those terms, “age” or “replaced”, which to me, those words imply a beginning and end. My point is the “new covenant” has no beginning or end because it is the very essence of God’s Eternal Being. So, I believe we are on the same page, just making it clear to one another that we are or not that the only thing new is the creation, which has a beginning and an end??

    How old I am or you are in God is something He only can say. He is Eternal. He is our Creator. We are His creature and we existed in Christ before the foundation of the world was laid or ever God spoke Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
    Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
    Gen 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

    So, as for “who” are the 144,000, I have to say, I don’t know. When I get out of this flesh container, wretched beast that it is, this flesh and get to walk the streets of gold I am sure I will know who each and every one of those 144,000 are seeing it is apparent to me God knows everything and everyone fully and when I step out of knowing in part to being fully known I will know things I cannot now know. Can’t wait for that coronation day! You?🙂

  8. This is a poor article , and yet another example of the dangers posed by the Messianic movement. Unfortunately , Judaizers are not a new phenomenon and in this day and age , their tactics are oh so subtle , but no less disturbing.This quote from the article should set the alarms sounding, but I wonder whether it has.

    Quote

    This number is described as being “redeemed from the earth”. In the writings of the Prophets, “the earth” is often a reference to the land of Israel, while Gentile nations are often referred to as “the sea” or “islands”.[18] This distinction persists throughout the Book of Revelation
    end quote

    This distinction persists throughout the book of Revelation.? really??

    If so , why then does Paul say in Galatians 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek,there is neither bond nor free, there is
    neither male nor female, ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    vs 29
    and if ye be Christ’s , then ye are Abraham’s seed , and heirs according
    to promise.

    Goodness me , with a couple of verses Paul dispels the ridiculous notion of dispensationalism, the very thing of which this article is guilty of . And this brings to bear another fatal flaw in the hermenutics of this work , and that is that instead of the author using the Spirit inspired writings of NT writers to reveal the old covenant , he is doing the exact opposite, using the prophets to interpret the new covenant.

    But the most alarming quote must indeed be this

    Quote
    for the apparent reason that God fulfils his purposes in judgment and salvation first for Israel as constituted under the old covenant.
    end quote

    Some one please show me where anyone was saved under the old covenant. The truth is that it never happened , and again this is a display of ‘ Jewish fables”. The only way that a person is saved , whether they were before Christ , or after Christ , is through Christ alone , indeed , the messenger of the new covenant.Jesus died for Abraham , Isaac and Jacob, Ruth , David and Daniel as well as for you and I !!, therefore , we are all first fruits , the 144000.
    Else where on this site , there is a link to an article by Steve Lumbley titled , ” What we Believe About Israel.” This is an excellent read , and imho , a must read for every believer, Steve makes the point that ;

    Quote
    6. We reject the dispensationalist idea that the Kingdom of God was “put on hold” when Israel rejected Messiah. We believe Jesus when he said the Kingdom would be taken from apostate Israel and given to a nation bearing fruit (Mat 21:43 Deut 32:21 1Peter 2:9). True Israel never ceased to exist, it simply took another form after Pentecost. True Israel now is a spiritual kingdom (John 18:36) that exists worldwide and is made up of one new man (Eph 2:15)
    end quote

    To which I say amen , there has only ever been one true Israel , the Israel of God , those who God predestined to be the elect of His kingdom, all of which have been redeemed by Christ.

    • This is a poor article , and yet another example of the dangers posed by the Messianic movement. Unfortunately , Judaizers are not a new phenomenon and in this day and age , their tactics are oh so subtle , but no less disturbing.This quote from the article should set the alarms sounding, but I wonder whether it has.

      Ray, while i agree with you concerning the messianic/hebrew roots movement (i’ve posted extensively about it) the website, Messianic Good News, does in no way fall into that category. In fact the authors featured at the website refute the dangerous teachings of both.

      Check out the teachings by Kevin Daly and Peter Cohen under Challenging False Doctrines

      I’m afraid you have made an unfair judgment before researching the site.

  9. Did anyone listen to the sermons posted as to the explanation of who are the 144,000?

    • kelli i didn’t because you had to be registered to listen.

      If you did, give us an idea about what they claimed, if time permits.

  10. Hi PJ
    I just checked and you do not have to register to listen. Only if you want to leave a comment on the studies. This is where I am being ministered by the Lord through
    Pastor/Teacher/ brother Bill Klein. The 144,000 are out of the tribes of Israel.
    Let me know if there is a problem with listening to the studies.

  11. PJ,

    Using a different link to the sermons I had posted. You do not need to register to listen to these:

    The sermon of Revelation 7:1-8

    http://www.masteringthebible.com/revelation/page/7

    The sermon of Revelation 14:1 God Seals True Believers:

    http://www.masteringthebible.com/revelation/page/4

    sam

  12. Thank you both (kelli & ntmyhm) for further information on registering. I’ll be sure to listen to both this week.🙂

  13. You are welcome, PJ.🙂

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