30 Comments

Rick Warren: Hate is never of God, never


Rick Warren does make a good point here folks. Exhibiting hate toward those practicing sin never won anyone to Christ.

Pastor Rick Warren admitted on CNN on Thursday that Evangelical churches are at least partly responsible for some of the negative attitudes towards gay and lesbian people.

Appearing on Starting Point to promote an updated version of his book, A Purpose Driven Life, Warren reiterated his opposition to recognizing same-sex couples. But asked about the suicide of Rutgers University student Tyler Clementi — who committed suicide after his roommate broadcast a video of him with another man — the pastor said that Jesus teaches Christians not to “hate anybody” and admitted that some churches fall short of this responsibility:

JOHN BERMAN (HOST): [Tyler Clementi’s] parents wrote that they left their Evangelical church recently because they felt the beliefs on homosexuality estranged them from their son, which meant he could not come to them. His mother said this, she said, ‘at this point, I think Jesus is more about reconciliation and love. He spoke more about divorce than homosexuality, but you can be divorced and join a church more than you can be gay and join churches.’

WARREN: You know, Jesus taught, as a Christian, I am not allowed to hate anybody. I’m not allowed to do that. In fact, I am commanded by Jesus Christ to love everyone, to show respect to everyone. There’s a difference between acceptance and approval. God accepts me, accepts you unconditionally. He doesn’t approve of everything we do.

BERMAN: But pastor, don’t you think some of our churches are responsible for some of the attitudes towards gays in America, the negative attitudes?

WARREN: Probably, yeah. In fact, there are some people who are extremely violent or hateful. And hate is never of God, never.

CNN Video

30 comments on “Rick Warren: Hate is never of God, never

  1. Reblogged this on The Master's Slave.

  2. Rick Warren is a very compromised source for anything including his sometimes truth speak. He openly joins with Muslims and gay organizations and treats them as spiritual equals, even though his vacuous statement of faith says otherwise. He has done more to water down the gospel than almost anyone I can think of.
    We know he doesn’t hate money or publicity. Who else do you know that tells publicly that he refuses a church salary? You know, the left hand/right hand thing. And when you are a double digit milionaire, does that even count?

    • Besides browsing through a copy of a friends Purpose Driven Life years ago, Rick Warren is someone who’s life and doctrine i’ve never looked at closely. But i have to say in this instance i agree with him. Perhaps its just another instance of a clock being right at least twice a day🙂

    • I agree with Rick on this. We have a whole cadre of celebrity “evangelical” pastors in this country whose doctrines and practices are so off the wall it makes one’s head spin. And, although I *think* I strongly agree with his position on this issue, I hesitate to actually *say* that, because 1) I don’t want to put myself in a position of validating his other positions, and 2) I fear to think of where he might go with *this* position in the future. While we need to be accepting of Gays, we must *never* be seen as validating their lifestyle in any way, shape or form. And more than anything, we would *not* be doing *them* a favor by doing so.

  3. “God accepts me, accepts you unconditionally.” I would say there are major theological issues with this statement because it is a half truth. This statement must be followed by another statement: God commands all sinners to repent (Acts 17:30). Unconditional acceptance is unfortunately a false gospel if not followed by condemnation of sin and the message of repentance.

    • Hi Chris…yes the Holy Spirit, when drawing us to Christ, will always lead us to repent. I actually took Warren’s statement,

      There’s a difference between acceptance and approval. God accepts me, accepts you unconditionally. He doesn’t approve of everything we do.

      in a different manner. That being, 1) God does not require us to clean up ourselves before he will accept us, and 2) His love for me is unconditional: that even when i fall and/or fail or when he may not always approve of my choices, i am still his child.

      You may be correct in how you believe Warren meant it and i may be wrong. But that’s how i understood it.

  4. …And hate is never of God, never..
    oh???

    Proverbs 6:16 There are six things which the LORD hates,
    Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:

    17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
    And hands that shed innocent blood,

    18A heart that devises wicked plans,
    Feet that run rapidly to evil,

    19A false witness who utters lies,
    And one who spreads strife among brothers.

    • M’Kayla its true God hates…but i believe the author was saying its not “of” God for Christians to hate other people, particularly in this instance the lost, because we disapprove of or hate their sins.

  5. “Some people have the misguided idea that God only gets excited when you’re doing “spiritual things,” like going to church or helping the poor, or, you know, confessing or doing something like that. The bottom line is, God gets pleasure watching you be you.”
    Rick Warren

    That is only one of literally hundreds of quotes and teachings of Rick Warren’s man centered, works oriented theology. You see, it’s not us desiring to please God, but He derives pleasure just watching us be us. If that is Biblical truth I’m a Mormon!

    • Well like i said, my knowledge of Rick Warren is pretty limited.

      But i can’t say i disagree with him in his statement about hate, because he’s right. The open display of hate shown toward those practicing the sin of homosexuality, by many in our churches, has been counterproductive, for not one lost person has ever been brought to Christ by exhibiting hate toward them.

      The Christian Post reported on yet another interview Warren gave concerning the same topic (apparently the same day he appeared on CNN)- Tolerance does not mean Approval

      I felt to leave a comment under that article a few days ago after looking up the word tolerance;

      Its interesting, if you look up the definition for tolerance you’ll also find the word forbearance listed as a synonym for the word tolerance. And as we know the term, forbearance, can be found in God’s word.

      “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Col.3

      Showing tolerance (or forbearing) toward/with others means to endure, which we can do if we recognize our own sins and failures before God. It is born out of humility. I believe this is what Warren was meaning when he said being tolerant does not mean he is approving. And I agree with him. We as Christians should never approve of any sin, but as once lost sinners ourselves, we “endure” or tolerate others who still live in sin, in the hope of one day winning them to Christ.

      That’s our ultimate goal, winning others to Christ. We don’t have to accept their sin, as i wrote above we should never be “accepting” of sin in any form or from anyone…including ourselves, but hating them because of their sin is in fact sin itself.

      This is why i posted this….to get that point across.

    • PJ, a large part of what makes this such a huge minefield for us as believers is that gay activists are doing everything in their power to confuse the terms “tolerance” and :”acceptance”. And this is what worries me about venturing into this minefield which is essentially what Rick Warren is doing. To me it is far more important to be making it clear that the the Kingdom of God is an Heavenly Kingdom and NOT an earthly one and that we are not to be imposing morality on the pagans around us, but rather showing to them an example in how we live our lives in Christ. This compulsion on the part of Christians to use carnal power to force unrepentant sinners to submit is the ROOT of the whole problem. Once you resolve that, all the hate and bashing of gays on the part of Christians goes away. But that does not pander to the desire on the part of homosexuals to be accepted, in which case they expect to be able to bring their baggage along unchallenged.

  6. Part of the problem, of course, is that it really doesn’t matter so much how WE take it. What matters a lot is how homosexuals take it. IF they take it as being acceptance of their lifestyle, even grudging acceptance. That is not a good thing. God is accepting of us, not matter what our baggage might be, BUT, He is NOT accepting of our baggage and if we would have Him, the baggage must go. We have to be clear about that, whether the baggage be homosexuality or heterosexual infidelity.

  7. “To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?”

    When we try to hard to remove the “savour” of death from the Gospel, we remove the Gospel itself. THAT it the underlying problem here. I AM NOT SAYING THAT RW HAS DONE THAT, I am saying that I am concerned about the potential for it to move in that direction. CERTAINLY we are to treat homosexuals with DIGNITY and RESPECT and the love of God inside and outside of church. We are never to target or confront them directly in a public setting, but we are also not to water down the message of the Gospel in an attempt to pander to them.

    OF COURSE, Gay bashing in all its forms is despicable and not to be tolerated, in or out of church. But what the Bible says about homosexuality is to be clearly taught from the pulpit. AND what the Bible says about a lot of other things (greed, divorce, gluttony, etc. etc.) that have been severely compromise by the church is to be clearly taught from the pulpit NO MATTER WHO MIGHT GET OFFENDED by the “savour of death”.

  8. I also do not think Warren meant the acceptance of sin. But let us remember, the Pope could also have uttered those words. Sometimes the person who says such things provides context which makes even a truthful statement suspect.

  9. Brothers i believe it all boils down to one thing: you agree that hate is not the manner in which to win souls or you think it is.

    I understand you don’t care for who i quoted, Rick Warren, and thats ok. But don’t let your stand on the man himself color what the point was intended to bring out in my post. That being, hate is never a tool the Church should use if we hope to win others to Christ.

    Have i ever mentioned Dave on the blog? If not let me know…i’ll tell you a little about him, ok?

  10. Chris and M’Kayla said it well. Most Christians cannot even believe that they are to “judge” things. They erronously quote “Judge not”, failing to understand that it actually means – don’t be judgemental. My point is backed up by other scriptures such as: the spiritual man judges all things. 1Cor2:15
    Conclusion: The Bible tells us to judge.

    That said, the examples and words cited by Chris and M’Kayla are true.
    The watered down, half truths (a half truth is a lie), acceptance, and
    “unconditional love”, are all Heresy. No where is the word “unconditional”
    found in the Bible. (A real Bible) True street preachers contend for the faith
    in harsh, adversarial, boxing round blows of trying to get people to admit the truth
    that they need a Saviour, need His Forgiveness, and only Jesus can forgive sins.
    Hate is a strong word, but a true word.
    You know what I hate?
    I hate the cults that brainwash, threaten, and carry out physical and emotional abuse,
    mostly on women, and destroy their lives, and send them straight to Hell.
    Spend any time streetwitnessing, and you will hate the cults too.
    That said, some win with kindness, some with…
    ” And of some have compassion, making a difference:
    And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire;
    hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”
    Jude 1
    The Bible even speaks of “Apostate” people. Look that one up.

    Is anyone else sick and tired of “pastors” who write their own Bible and make up
    false doctrines like “love the sinner, hate the sin”.
    In decades of debate on that one, I easily show that saying fails.
    You cannot separate the action from the person!
    Just go to a courtroom and give that for a defence, or say “the devil made me do it”.
    What Judge would say “Oh, you didn’t really do that crime. OK, go free.”.
    Exactly.
    Never happens.
    Neither should we believe false doctrines that fail the Bible test.
    I say all this to show that we don’t just hate the sin.
    The meaning of this is that it is ok to have a “Godly” hate. Understand?
    (If not, go listen to a Southern Baptist Preacher. LOL)
    “The fear of the Lord is to Hate evil” Proverbs 8:13.

    Instead of listening to the words of a Heretic, (PJ has a list), read more of the Bible,
    (KJ or NKJ, others have to many errors), and use a Strongs Concordance.
    Those two will bring a wealth of wisdom and knowledge, and understanding.
    Read “Kingdom of the Cults” Awesome and necessary study. By Walter Martin.
    Then get out and witness, like the Disciples did, and really get to know God!
    *Your life will be changed forever!!!

    Good discussion point PJ. Good comments everyone.
    “Fight the good Fight”! (1Tim 6:12)
    (and go win some souls for Christ!)

    God Bless.

  11. I think the hate speech canard directed at christians, as far as the gospel is concerned, is a demonic attempt to deflect one of the necessary components for the salvation of any sinner and that is repentance. “Repent and believe the gospel” Jesus said to do both, repent and believe. Repentance and faith are linked. “not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God”

    That “repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem”. Luke 24:47.

    Guess what! If you are not going to repent of your sins, then you are not going to be forgiven of your sins and if you are not forgiven of your sins, then how can you be saved? You can’t be saved without being forgiven and you can’t be forgiven without repenting of your sins.

    Repentance is part and parcel of the gospel and is ALWAYS directed at sin. There is “more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents” “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance” “If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him” “Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away” “to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins”

    You repent in regard to sin and through repentance you are forgiven. NOW, what does repentance mean??? Jesus tells the woman taken in adultery, “Go and sin no more” Jn 8. Jesus tells the man who was lame for 38 years, “Stop sinning, lest a worse thing come upon you” Jn 5. Paul says, “Awake to righteousness and sin not” 1Cor 15

    This is what repentance means. STOP!!! You must stop sinning. That is repentance per Jesus and Paul. You must stop sinning to be forgiven. If you don’t stop sinning you won’t be forgiven. That applies to everyone by the way, saved and unsaved alike. “He who practices sin is of the devil” 1Jn 3.

    Now the hate speech angle comes in. If it can be defined as hate to tell someone that they are sinning and that they need to repent and believe the gospel or they will perish then the gospel can be thwarted in it’s goal to save sinners. It has become another gospel.

    • Amen Davo. Your exhortation concerning true repentance being necessary for salvation is indeed true! And that requires both the gospel and the Holy Spirit.

      Now the hate speech angle comes in. If it can be defined as hate to tell someone that they are sinning and that they need to repent and believe the gospel or they will perish then the gospel can be thwarted in it’s goal to save sinners. It has become another gospel.

      True. But let us be always mindful of the necessary work of the Spirit of God. For if our words (“you are sinning”) are not directed by the Spirit and ON the Spirits timetable, we could be wasting our breathe. After all it is the Holy Spirit who anoints (our words) and who convicts of sin; As well as who will draw that lost person to Jesus.

      What many have been guilty of is falsely believing that condemning homosexuals through the practice of hate speech, is the gospel. And brother its not. I see it around the internet everyday; folks who claim to be Christians who don’t appear to care one way or another if homosexuals hear the gospel, or frankly, ever come to the knowledge of Christ. They are only interested in condemning the sinful behaviour day after day…

  12. “Stop sinning”? Please intorduce me to that person. Repentance (metanoia) means to change your mind. Sanctification is then a process. repent and believe the gospel is change your mind (heart) and believe. “If we say we are not sinning we lie and the truth is not in us”. The Lord’s Prayer asks for forgiveness for the sins we commit.
    When we are born again we are changed in the inside and the outside becomes a process. No one is sinless except Jesus. If you stop sinning, what are you forgiven for?

    • When we are born again we are changed in the inside and the outside becomes a process.

      True, it sure does. I’ve come to think that process never stops Rick, that it continues until we go home. Though we strive toward perfection this corruptible “fleshly tent”, until its shed, will always work to hold us back.

      On the topic of repentance, i recall meeting a guy on the forum i helped moderate years ago. He argued that once we repented at the time of being born again, we no longer needed to ask forgiveness for any sins we committed afterward. That was a new one on me!:-)

      Anyone ever heard of that?

  13. Yes. The Nazarenes have a similar “second blessing” theology. Repentance means a change of mind. The change of the body/behavior is a process called sanctification. The sinless perfection a la Finney (who I like) is Scripturally inaccurate and experiencially wanting.

  14. Jesus said stop sinning. That is His instruction. That is what repentance means. “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.” Jn 5:14 “Go, and sin no more”. Jn 8:11. Same thing. Stop it or something worse will happen. What is worse than 38 years of being lame? I take it Jesus means hell. Stop sinning or you are going to hell.

    Who gets forgiven of something that they never stop doing? I’m gonna keep sinning but I know you’ll forgive me God. I’ve changed my attitude, I admit it’s wrong. This sounds like something out of the Roman confessional. I just keep getting forgiven over and over and over. We are talking repentance not penance.

    Repentance isn’t just a change of mind and heart, it is a change of behavior because if you don’t cease, hell will be the result. That is the biblical warning repeated over and over. NONE of this message that -“quitting sin” is a process we undergo- is in the Bible. “If your right eye stumbles you PLUCK IT OUT!!!” “He who commits sin is the slave of sin and the slave does not abide in the house” “Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death…But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness” Rom 6:16-18. Free from sin and slaves of righteousness is Paul’s version of christianity.

    Eph 5:5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
    Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the
    wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    Eph 5:7 Therefore you do not be partakers with them;

    1Jo 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    1Jo 3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil

    1Cr 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived

    Gal 5:21 …things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    The unrighteous will not inherit! Be warned! Those who practice such things will not inherit! Because of these things you will not inherit, Ephesian christian, the wrath of God will come on you! You must stop them, NOW!! Only if you practice righteousness are you righteous. If you practice sin you are of the devil. Christian or not!

    Notice how many warnings about being deceived in regard to what constitutes a life that will ultimately be saved. Many people are deceived and confused by these false kind of representations about sin and sanctification into thinking that just because they are a chrisian they can live any way the want. Not so. All these scriptures are warnings to christians, not sinners.

    “I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced” 2Cor 12:21. They must repent of their practices. That means stop practicing them. Paul may mourn over many because they are in danger of eternal death and damnation because they haven’t repented.

    Is repenting of adultery a process, or stealing, or murder, or lying or homosexuality or idolatry, or drunkenness? Processes? Just change your opinion about these things and work it out as you go, It’s all a process you know.

    Take the subject of pornography and masturbation. Look at Matt 5.
    Mat 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
    Mat 5:29 “If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
    Mat 5:30 “If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

    Pornography and masturbation are represented here by Jesus. What is His assessment of these sins? Pluck it out! Cut it off! Stop it! Why? YOU WILL GO TO HELL if you don’t!!! Read it again.

    No, these sins are addressed as sins that will damn you and you must flee. You are at risk if you think you can live in a compromised state with sin. Beware of any preacher telling you don’t have to stop sinning to be saved!! “Let no man deceive you!”

    This is the message “that repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all the nations”. Repent and believe and you will be saved!

  15. PJ you asked? …On the topic of repentance, i recall meeting a guy on the forum i helped moderate years ago. He argued that once we repented at the time of being born again, we no longer needed to ask forgiveness for any sins we committed afterward. That was a new one on me!:-)

    Anyone ever heard of that?

    Yes I have😦
    It is based on the atonement. He atoned for all our sin both past and future. I believe he DID atone for all our sin but repentance MUST be repeated again and again (as many times as we sin) and that in my understanding is daily.

    • Hi Sylvia…and an early Merry Christmas!

      Yes that’s always been my understanding too, that we continue to ask for forgiveness for present sins we commit.

      And there is still another ‘type’ of repentance: I found even after initially experiencing deep repentance when born again, over the years God’s Spirit brought certain specific (long forgotten) trespasses to mind when i’d be deep in prayer. These were things the Spirit showed me were actually hindering my spiritual growth, so they required repentance on my part. Plus, on one occasion even going to the person and asking for forgiveness. Some may call that part of sanctification, and perhaps it is. But it was also (in my heart) repentance.

      I don’t always agree with John MacArthur but i can agree here,

      Remorse over sin, daily confession, and a continual attitude of repentance are marks of a healthy Christian life.

      Salvation does not grant us a license to sin, nor does it guarantee we’ll never sin again. My personal habit is, when i sin in thought or deed and the Holy Spirit quickly points it out (which He never fails to do, aha!) i immediately repent and ask God to forgive me.

  16. We Christians could argue about details for the rest of our lives, but does it really help? Do the details bring people to Jesus? Or does His love bring the lost in? We might be mature, in Christ, but to the lost all of this is overwhelming. It is too hard and way to many rules. The truth is…Jesus is the truth, the way, and the life. You all sound really smart and a lot of these comments are over my head. Alot of big words. But I do know one thing. I know the Lord Jesus Christ. I know that He knows me. I know, and am confident that He has forgiven me. And I don’t have to keep asking for what I already have. I know that He and I are one. I know that He has given me all things. I know that He loves me. I know that He hears me when I pray. Hmm, I guess I know a few things. I could go on and on. We plant seeds, God adds the increase. What kind of seeds are we planting? Let God be God. Love you.

    • You bring up an interesting point. Sometimes i look back to the early days, months etc. after coming to Jesus with joy for the simple reason living for Christ then, was so simple. I’ve often commented on here about how the day i was born-again, i was totally ignorant to the things of God. Not raised in church and not being a church go-er as an early adult frankly made me a blank slate. When suddenly being drawn to fall on my knees in deep repentance that morning in 1980, and “seeing” Jesus on the Cross, knowing He was there because He loved me, was most real thing which had (and has) ever happened in my life! The months following i didn’t care a thing about having the right theology, i only cared about reading the Word and talking all day long with my new friend and saviour Jesus. It seemed so simple then. I was like a child who possessed the most wonderful gift in the world, and i wanted to tell everyone about it and about Him.

      So, to your question, “Do the details bring people to Jesus?”

      In my case, i can say no. Details (of which i had none) didn’t save me that morning.

  17. I got saved reading a book when I was 20 years old in 1977. I was alone at the time and I took the opportunity presented in the book to receive Jesus Christ. When I prayed that prayer, certain things took place. First, something inside me came alive, I felt it. Something that I didn’t know was there just went “poof” on the inside of me. Sorta like when you “lose your belly” on a roller coaster ride. My spirit came alive. Next, the cloud of oppression, gloom, despair, hopelessness and confusion that had settled over my life and my mind from the drugs, drinking, carousing and rock&roll, again just went “POOF”. Gone!!! The oppression over my life was broken in a split second of time. Hope came shining through for the first time since I was a child. Then, I remember my first conscious thought was- “I have to stop living the way I have been living. I can’t do this stuff anymore”

    Repentance was the first thing that came to my mind even though that wasn’t the message I read, the message I read was to simply believe, pray and receive. Unfortunately, there was no reinforcement in my life to follow through on that understanding of repentance. The understanding that repentance is required, commanded even and that repentance means you have to stop sinning was a missing aspect of my initial christian experience. You have to stop. You can’t be deceived into thinking we are allowed any compromise with sin. None. Nowhere in the Bible does it exist.

    I eventually went through the struggling process that almost all christians go through in regard to sin. I can’t say for sure I know what my experience would have been if someone had been able to make clear to me the message of repentance but I know for sure that my life couldn’t have been any worse for it. I believe it would have hastened my progress in the pursuit of what every christian should be in pursuit of- to live righteously and godly in this present world.

    Christianity has lost the very introduction, the first word, of the gospel to men. Christianity has lost the very meaning of the word. You must repent because if you don’t repent you will not be forgiven. Luke 24:47. You might as well get at it, it’s inevitable, you will repent or you will perish. We lack such clarity in our christian endeavors. If you don’t repent of sin you will in fact be judged and condemned along with the world even though you might have been saved. “Unless you repent you will all likewise perish” “If you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to every man’s work, let us conduct ourselves in fear during our brief stay upon this earth” 1Pet 1:17 This is the arrogance that the Bible condemns in God’s people, thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to think. Thinking we are above being judged and condemned for our sins. This was Israel’s downfall. “We are the people of God, the seed of Abraham, His chosen. We have a covenant with God, in our flesh no less. We have the oracles of God. This is the city of God, the temple of God, the house of God. God lives here!! God would never judge us!!!” Wrong. God warned Israel, if you go the way of the nations around you, you will suffer the same fate as they did. You will be treated the same as them. This is the message of God to believers. There is no partiality with God. Somehow we think, having received mercy and forgiveness we are beyond the judgment of God upon sin.

    This is where the church has lost the fear of God. There is no fear of God anymore in the church. In the Bible yes. In the New Testament yes, but in the church NONE!! Zero. And the result is the world mocks at hell and eternal damnation because believers don’t live as if hell matters anymore and complain that it’s all too technical to understand when in fact christians are under threat of worse condemnation than the world if we turn back to sin, because we know better if we have been saved. To whom much is given much is required. Please read Pet 2:18-22. Iniquity is knowing something is wrong, sinful and doing it anyway. Lawlessness is the same thing as iniquity. The rules don’t apply to me. “I’m not perfect, just forgiven” “I can live like a sinner and still be saved” We are deceived as a people, just like Israel, when we think that we are forgiven in spite of our sins all the while condemning the world for their sins. No, christians face a severer judgment if they compromise with sin.

    2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Rom 2:3-6

    Paul says that WE KNOW that God judges men who practice sin. He condemns the hypocrisy of those who judge others while doing the same thing, not realizing that the judgment of God is going to fall on them. Yet, most christians, through ignorance it says, are stubborn and unrepentant in their sins. They refuse to stop. They misunderstand the mercy of God as an allowance for sin. Somehow grace means that God tolerates my sinfulness.

    Mercy gives us an opportunity to get it right, to come to repentance, to find the right path, to understand what the true goal is. That has been my experience. FINALLY doofus davo figures it out. This is all about living right. DUH!! That’s all I’m about anymore. Getting it right and if I get it wrong it’s repent and back to getting it right. It’s all I hardly think about anymore. The righteousness that is of faith. Through faith I can live righteously before God and men. We can do this!!! I’m channeling Caleb. Mercy does not give us an excuse to persist in sin, thinking we are safe even though we sin. Some have fallen prey to false teachers and false doctrines of grace that have assured them they will escape the judgment of God even though they live unrighteously, when the Bible clearly says He will judge every person according to their works. Righteous or unrighteous and the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom. They will be disinherited. Just like God told the children of Israel in the wilderness…”You will know My breach of promise” You ain’t getting in.

    Listen to the Bible,
    20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. Rev 2:20-22

    God is merciful, He will give us time to repent of our deeds, but who is willing to repent if they don’t think they have to repent. Who will stop sinning if they are convinced they can get away with it? She doesn’t WANT to repent because she doesn’t think she has to repent. She teaches and leads My bond-servants astray into thinking they can commit acts of immorality and adultery without consequence. She convinces God’s servants they can be unfaithful to God and still escape judgment for sin. Her message is you can compromise with sin and still be saved. She is a prophetess, a teacher and a leader in the church but she must not be tolerated because she leads God’s people to condemnation.

    “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. Jn 15:18

    Why does the world hate Jesus? How could they hate lovable Jesus? The answer-Repentance. It’s the requirement of repentance that brings out the hate. Repentance must go out with the gospel message. Then we know who loves their sin. If they love their sin, they won’t repent and they hate anyone telling them they have to stop. This is the condemnation …they love darkness and won’t come to the light because they hate the light.

    The world will hate us because we must tell them they must repent or perish. God loves you, infinitely so, but He won’t give up his standards for you. God won’t compromise for you. It’s tempting God to think He will. You must conform to His standards. He will have mercy on your many failures, if you repent. He will help you overcome through grace if you have faith but He will not tolerate willful disobedience and stubborn resistance and apathetic lukewarmness to His righteous standards. To accept Christ is to accept His word and His way and that means we must go and sin no more. Stop sinning lest a worse thing come upon you. We must speak this truth in love.

    • Davo, thank you so much for sharing how you came to Jesus…reading and hearing people’s personal testimonies always bless me! I also believe our personal testimony is one of the greatest ways to witness to the lost. I pray some lost searching soul, will be directed here to read yours brother…

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