Received this from Andrew Strom:
KUNDALINI WARNING – Urgent
-by Andrew Strom
I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland.
They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are greatly promoting the whole thing.
Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask a simple question here please?
What kind of “spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy?
And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going on here?
Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-level ministries not to do what he is doing now -bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care.
Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.
So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel” encounters, etc.)
Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through New Age and Hinduism, etc?
Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations?
This ‘spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is (found) all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism. Don’t you think this should alarm us?
WHAT is KUNDALINI?
If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.
As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
“The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’. At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead, by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.
The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…
After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably, sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds of physical signs during this period.
Often devotees move on to higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”
And as guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
“When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions…the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”
In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.
When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in 1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told his audience,
“Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry. This is quite normal.”
When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ! There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).
Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and movements.
I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very ones responsible for allowing it to spread through the body of Christ.
And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.
We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light” masquerading as the real thing.
Why does the modern church not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very days that the Bible warns about?
Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such a way before.
I have never before published a list of ministries or movements to watch out for. But this time I have to.
This sickness has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends.
Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves.
Here is the list-
- (1) Todd Bentley.
- (2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
- (2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
- (3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
- (4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside other “false anointing” advocates.
- (5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike Bickle promotes it in his book).
- (6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly tainted by it all.
- (7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
- (8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
- (9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
- (10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries – who do good work amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
- (11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
- (12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it.
Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing” around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most influential that I know of.
It really is an enormous issue in the church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have) that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit, then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!
I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this. But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?
Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards, etc. These people are trying to “relaunch” this whole thing right now. Help us get this warning out.
To see a video showing “kriyas” and other Kundalini-type manifestations, please click on the Youtube links below-
*a few more videos of interest*
As to which spirit is operating in these meetings one simply needs to look at the doctrinal content. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth; He confirms the word of God (Ac5:32, 14:3, 1Ths1:5, Heb2:4 etc).
If lies are being preached, which spirit confirms them but the father thereof (2Ths2:9)?
Thanks for your excellent blog. Have a great day! 🙂
I am certainly glad to see that there are those that are speaking out against this as it all seems to be winding up and really taking off again–both at Morning Star and at IHOP.
Between this and the contemplative prayer movement that I believe is just another way to take people to the same place, it is quite a “dangerous” world out there these days.
Most if not all of the names listed believe in Dominionism (Kingdom Now) doctrine. More names could definitely be listed.
What again is being demonstrated..or “manifested” amongst these groups is a wholesale lack of even the most basic theological and understanding of “terms and condition” if you will of who is qualified to minister amongst us. And really the whole NAR, Vineyard, and Word of Faith movement is rapidly becoming a disgrace in those critical areas. Why? really…because unless one is Born Again…they can’t, and have to craft a ‘god” in their own image. No matter how many enumerated heresies, false prophecies, satanic manifestations, unless the Holy Spirit brings them out of their darkness…Christ promises that this will continue and increase. We are witnessing in my mind are men and women who are completely unqualified to hand out a weekly bulletin be allowed to oversee, teach, and lead believers, many of whom are infantile in understanding the word…basically biblically illiterate and who have almost no ability to discern, or the courage to flee lest they be looked upon as “legalists”, mean spirited.
I don’t know, it could be a stretch? After reading the article I thought of these verses as all elements of the article I find somewhere in them:::>
Luk 9:41 Jesus answered, “O faithless and twisted generation, how long am I to be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.”
Luk 9:42 While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father.
Luk 9:43 And all were astonished at the majesty of God. But while they were all marveling at everything he was doing, Jesus said to his disciples,
Luk 9:44 “Let these words sink into your ears: The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men.”
A faithless generation seeking after signs.
We see that demons convulse people when they are being delivered. So it makes perfectly good sense to me that when you are being touched by a guru those same spirits can convulse or jig or rattle and shake you as well as hoot and bark and squeel??
There is an uncleanness to the Lakeland, the Joyner and the Bickle video clips I have watched. In each of them is a different spirit or cloud that fills the room. Does anyone else “see” that?
Sadly, what these people are calling the “majesty of God” is the majesty of a seducing beguiling spirit.
And even more ominous is the last verse of this verse citation!
Jesus did say if they do this to Him, they will do this to His followers too.
My guess is if the Church doesn’t rise up and put this whole thing down, soon, popularity and familiarity will overcome the populus to the degree that when we do confront them and their error they too will deliver us over as well to the hands of men?
The one part about the “laying on of hands” seemed to strike a deeper cord within me than all the rest.
The laying on of hands, as we know, is a sacred part of a young disciple’s process into maturity:::>
Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,
Heb 5:13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this we will do if God permits.
The only hope of escape from delusion and deception is Truth!
thanks for all your help. I copied all your scripture references to study.
I was involved in a church in Ohio where many of the people named here were often guest speakers. Several of them laid hands on me. I got out several years ago, but many of my friends have not. My question is if you’ve been prayed for by these people with a deceiving spirit how do you get rid of it?
I would answer that question, “how do you get rid of it”? this way.
Do you believe something was imparted to you that was not of Christ?
If so, you can turn to Christ, Who knows our sins and shortcomings already and ask Him to cleanse you of any unrighteousness you have incurred from their laying their hands on you.
Jesus said an unusual thing here:
Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
That there was in response to objections to the Disciples eating foods with unclean hands.
So it is in the spiritual sense that someone or ones can lay dirty spiritual hands on you too.
If you opened up your heart to be prayed for by someone and by standing in line you let them lay hands on you, and now you have come to your senses and realize that wasn’t of Faith, or Christ’s doing, ok, bring it to the Lord in prayer now and humbly ask the Lord’s forgiveness for that too!
Now, you see that something was amiss at that church in Ohio, I suppose?
Seeing that what you responded to was error now tells me the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart and guiding you already back into the Truth.
Ponder these Words of Holy Scripture as well:::>
Heb 9:8 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing
Heb 9:9 (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper,
Heb 9:10 but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
What these folks are putting over for us to believe is they have some special “access” by the power of the Holy Spirit that you do not have.
Well, ask them the next time you get a chance to explain those verses, Hebrews 9 then.
And while you are asking them to explain themselves with why they have a special “access” to God that you do not, ask them about these verses too and why you should support their ministry and they shouldn’t support yours?:::>
Act 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you,
Act 20:27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Act 20:29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
Act 20:30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears.
Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Act 20:33 I coveted no one’s silver or gold or apparel.
Act 20:34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me.
Act 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.'”
The steps are pretty straightforward.
Repent: Turn from what is wrong, often where most start and stop.
Forgive: yes, there is need of forgiveness, even over those who are deceiving. Forgiveness does not mean acceptance or tolerance. It is letting go of the hold that the anger has on you. Remember the bible indicates “In your anger do not sin, do not give the devil a foothold” when there is anger, there is hurt and lack of forgiveness. I probably need to write something on this.
Renounce: Close off any ties. When you have “impartations” and prayer by laying on of hands, there can be something pased on. I have read testimony of power of lust.
Stand in Jesus authority: It is finished. The devil has no authority unless yielded by sin or act of self.
I have been a committed Christian serving in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles for the better part of 30 years and can attest to the rapidly increasing level of deception over the last several years. (I no longer consider myself a part of any of these “movements” now. Happily, I’m free from the clutches of religion. I am simply a Christian, sold as a slave to righteousness).
Interestingly enough, almost 2 years ago, my husband and I were delivered from the clutches of this religious, manipulative, intimidating and deceptive spirit through a series of circumstances. Simply put, we were a vital part of the leadership in an autonomous church affiliated with a larger network of churches, and witnessed gross SIN on the part of the leadership that had to do with obeying the laws of the land–a very straightforward Romans 13 issue.
When my husband (who at the time was an elder), confronted the matter in a spirit of love, soundness and doctrinal truth, we were met with spiritual stonewalling and a firestorm of events ensued that soon conveniently put us out of the church we had served and loved for 6 years.
Without further detail, I just want to say that God used the circumstance of said SIN to test our integrity and open our eyes to the much LARGER matter of spiritual wickedness in high places.
As God graciously cleansed us of that spirit, He led us to repentance from ever tolerating Jezebel’s deeds. We searched our hearts and made it our prayer to be made
new in the attitude of our minds and I asked God to show me (highlight) the lies and deceptive teachings, as defined by that which did not line up with the Word in truth.
What makes this thing so slippery is that they use spiritual terminology and Scripture to “sell” their product, but it has no solid footing in TRUTH. That is why it requires spiritual discernment as God is generous to give to those who ask as James 1:5-6 says:
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
I could identify with your post, however, I did not see overt sin, I believe the support for my husband who was irreconcilable to our marriage, and then supported in remarriage when Scriptures warn against this got me to question the leadership and eventually the movement. The focus was on feelings and they are so elusive.
Our focus should be on obedience and submission to the Lord through His Word alone.
It’s real simple. First you must think that you have been afflicted by their spirits. Don’t be so sure that this true. If God’s Spirit is in you, then those outside forces cannot touch you. “Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world”. (I John 4: 4)
But if your not sure, then there is a simple test to prove that you are clean. As you read this, just say out loud: “In the Name of Jesus Christ, JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, BORN IN THE FLESH”.
If you can say that, then your fine (1 Corinthians 12: 3 and 1 John 4: 2)
Just to settle your heart, please consider how much you love to read God’s Word. If you do spend time reading the Bible, and have experienced spiritual growth from this daily practice, then your past has no power over you. But, one of the markings of someone whom has been touched by evil is that they either cannot understand scripture, or they have no desire for it. Evil spirits hate and fear the Word of God.
Finally, if your still uncertain, then just let me remind you that: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to CLEANSE US FROM “ALL” UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. (I John 1: 9)
May you have peace in the LORD your God, and be blessed by His loving hand. Amen.
thank you ! this really helps
Zoe – Repentance, renouncing, forgiving and seeking forgiveness were all requirements on the road to freedom for me. Even after getting out. Don’t know if you have ever been over to M’Kayla’s Korner – she has an excellent post entitled: Freedom from false spirits of revival.
I don’t know how to do a link but it is easy to find via Google search.
thanks, I’ll check it out
I repented for having submitted to these teachings and experiences and renounced them. I laid hands on myself and asked God in Jesus name to remove all wrong things/spirits that had been transmitted to me by the laying on of hands, and asked to be cleansed from all of it.
I was upstairs with the windows open on a hot summer night and immediately experienced goosebumps from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I didn’t dwell on this any longer; rather, my coming “out” from these beliefs occurred during a time when I was saturating myself in the Scriptures daily.
Two Scriptures I’ve found helpful. I pray 2 Thess. 2:10 for myself and loved ones: “God, give me/us a love of/for the truth…”.
Deut. 13:3 was helpful also: “…for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
M’kayla at M’kayla’s Korner posted a very in-depth article offering advice for what to do when manifestations are persistent.
Here’s a brief excerpt of some points I found helpful: “…renounce those things and repent before God that you listened to another message. You need to immediately get into the word of God and STAY IN IT to get your mind filled with the truth so that where the adversary “unrenewed” your mind can be restored back to its renewed state. How do you do that? Like I said, DON’T DWELL ON the “new” message, the lie, YOU received and believed, but certainly acknowledge having accepted another message in repentance and go over it ONLY ENOUGH to replace the lies you’ve believed with the truth of God’s word and then put the lie behind you. For instance, did the preacher you listened to say, “Don’t think about it, don’t question it, just receive it. It will become clear to you later once you’ve received”? Then repent for that, and read Scripture about discerning all things and how we are to renew our minds through the reading of the word. Read in Scripture how God gives understanding and wisdom and knowledge and expects us to know what we are believing and why and not to forsake what He has said. Read about how we are to meditate on God’s word and how the spiritual man is to discern all things by God’s word. Acknowledge your desire for feelings and how you desired experiencing “the presence of God.” Repent for desiring and being driven by the seeking of experiences and good feelings.”
Blessings to you. God will reward your desire for truth and to separate yourself from these false things.
M’Kayla has some good wisdom on just this topic, at this thread. Her site is directed specifically to those coming out of Charismania, and is a great place to detox.
I saw this on warning on another site, and was glad to see it here, I would prefoer to use you as a link for this piece I did–updating “The Screwtape Letters” for 2010. You might enjoy reading it here:
and more e-mails are coming. Joel’s Army is on the march again.
Hey, thanks Karen!
You’ve already been given very wise council by those who wrote back to you, so i won’t add much more then a few words.
Don’t fear. That is my council, don’t fall into fear over something which is only a possibility.
David’s advice may sound simple but its true,
The only thing i would add, is afterward, believe it is done.
I think I have been living in fear for a long time and didn’t realize it. I do repent for being involved in something that was obviously not from God. I was seeking God, but was not discerning about what was going on. Now I see that the meetings were just feeding my ego. I forgive those involved and I know God has forgiven me.
Thanks for the advice and links. I too was affected by this in Ohio and want to be free from any and all defilement. For me, I never sought manifestations, and thankfully never had any, but suffered terribly from and still do suffer somewhat from depression, confusion, and emotional disconnection; and my husband fell into impurity. I think these are partly the result of filthy spirits that “infect” us when we let people with false spirits lay hands on us. I am simply repenting, renouncing, and trusting in the power of Jesus’ blood and His love for me and my husband.
Hey, I perused briefly the lM’kayla article and will study it carefully . It makes a good point: that we must be established in the Scriptures and go into Him, not just get out of error. When we had to leave the last church we were in over Todd Bentley et al, I asked the Lord, “What/where now?” From Revelation I saw instruction: return to your first love and do the things you did at the first. I tried to obey that literally, listening to Keith Green, reading my Bible, praying, reading older authors, and listening to sermons from SermonIndex by folks like Art Katz, serving in love, sharing the gospel. We even went back to people we knew long ago but who had wronged us. I know the faith and the life we had in the first decade of our born again life was true and powerful and fruitful, so I’m “going back” there to the foundation which was true.
I recently was listening to a lecture on Montanism. Montanism was an early church heresy initiated by a “new revelation” through the “prophet” Montanus in the early 2nd century. The Montanists, among other things, did not distinguish between being filled with the Holy Spirit and being possessed by the Holy Spirit. In fact, they claimed to be possessed by the Holy Spirit and felt very spiritual in making that claim. BUT the Holy Spirit DOES NOT possess people. When you see people in (or out of) church who claim or appear to be possessed by the Holy Spirit, you can be sure that the spirit that is possessing them IS NOT the Holy Spirit. It is some other spirit that is up to no good. This is a simple introduction of sorts to testing the spirits. And if you get in a situation where these people forcefully lay hands on you (another sign that this is not the Holy Spirit), pray to the Lord Jesus for protection and leave the scene as quickly as possible and don’t return. Don’t worry about these people condemning you, because what they are up to is NOT of God and they have no power over you. On the other hand, if you have put your faith in these false prophets and invited their “prayers”, the above advice is right on the mark. – George
PS – Just to be clear. By “above advice” I am referring to the advice of pj and others to repent, forgive and move on.
PS again – Here is a wikipedia reference on Montanism. Its a good read:
Jessa Bentley had a dream about Oral Roberts speaking to her. In her dream there was an elephant and she said that the elephant meant great impact and she felt what happened at Lakeland was just an introduction, just a table of contents that is to come and it’s going to be greater than it was before. She was then shown in the dream a golden lion which she said represented boldness. She said “because you see, we need the wild elephant first before we can get the lion when the boldness of the church is released.
Here is some information about the hindu motif of a lion on an elephant – it is believed to symbolise the triumph of Hinduism over Buddhism
Jan, when hearing her speak about the elephant and lion, i thought back to a situation some years ago in which a young woman was in need of deliverance.
I won’t go into details except to say this woman believed the manifestations occurring [of a lion] were of God. I find out during that encounter, that many Christians will automatically associate the lion with Christ…for good reason, for he is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
Satan knows this too…
Its a shame to say but Jessa Bentley is as deceived as her husband.
Have you EVER heard any of these people talk about unclean spirits seeking to trick or fool them? Nope…and if they were truly as spiritually ‘in-touch’ as they think they are, they would be attacked in that manner often. This tells me they believe every vision, dream, or experience they have, is believed by them to have come from God.
(Thanks for the info/link.)
PJ – Just a note to say that M’kayla has an urgent prayer request up on her site regarding a tragedy in her family. Thanks.
Thank you David, for letting me know.
I’ll post a prayer request.
something struck reading PJ’s final words to you after following the advice you have been given from a whole of people who love you and want the very best for you too.
PJ: “….The only thing i would add, is afterward, believe it is done….”.
I would add one thing with that and that is this that the Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, which applies to you in your case as it does to each of us as we each face our own sins and realize the nature behind them:::>
2Co 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Co 1:4 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
I have pondered those word a lot and found that Paul might have gotten part of his inspiration for writing that from Isaiah:::>
Isa 1:16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,
Isa 1:17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.
Isa 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.
I had wondered how my sins can become like wool? Then it seemed to make sense to me that by my past experiences, my sins and weaknesses and trials and troubles, my failures in this life, once washed and cleansed and restored to Holy Communion with both God and man, I would have something I could comfort others about who struggle in their own ways with their own sins, weaknesses, trials and troubles.
We also believe in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Christian Church and the “communion” of the Saints.
Who can fault you for turning to this sort of thing at that place in Ohio? We were built for Holy Communion with the Saints. We all stumble in many ways as we go along in this life. I believe you are grateful for PJ and the group of souls in here who have reached out to you? I commend you for your honesty and willingness to share what you did with us in here!
May the Lord richly Bless you and Keep you in His favor continually!
Let me edit myself and ask you to regard this edition as the first above:::>
“….something struck reading PJ’s final words to you after following the advice you have been given from a whole of people who love you and want the very best for you too…”
Should have read:
“something struck me when reading PJ’s final words to you after some advice to you that you have been given from a whole lot of people in here who love you and want the very best for you too”.
Also at another sentence, since I am fixing up my syntax errors, this one too:::>
“….I have pondered those word a lot….” should read:
“I have pondered those words a lot”.
I am very grateful to all those here who have reached out to me in the love of the Lord. I appreciate all the godly advice and prayers.
you responded: “….Have you EVER heard any of these people talk about unclean spirits seeking to trick or fool them? Nope…”.
I can’t say I have ever had the devil or devils come to me and identify themselves as my enemy, dressed up in enemy soldier uniform/s so I knew it was the enemy I was fighting!
I can say Christ has come and set me free, sending me the Holy Spirit to guide into all truth, and sadly, because of my own flesh, this world’s temptations and the devils I haven’t always walked in the Light!
The really ironic thing is, most of the time when they are accusing the devil of doing some bad thing to them it really is God bringing reproof or correction, instruction in the way of Righteousness to them and they are so dull or blind they cannot perceive it is God so as to repent and be cured, healed or saved from the error of their ways.
These Words from Proverbs should put the fear of God in all of us as we tremble at His Words:::>
Pro 3:11 My son, do not despise the LORD’s discipline or be weary of his reproof,
Pro 3:12 for the LORD reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights.
Pro 3:13 Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who gets understanding,
Pro 3:14 for the gain from her is better than gain from silver and her profit better than gold.
Pro 3:15 She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her.
Pro 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor.
Pro 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
Pro 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, but he loves him who pursues righteousness.
Pro 15:10 There is severe discipline for him who forsakes the way; whoever hates reproof will die.
Pro 15:11 Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the LORD; how much more the hearts of the children of man!
Hi all, we agree wholeheartedly. WE had our “eyes opened” about 1 month ago and realised that our church is invovled in this sort of stuff. WE hv decided to leave. It is painful experience leaving a church community.
Do any safe evangelical churches exist out there?
We are wondering whether any do? So far in New Zealand I can’t seem to find any…they all have one foot in and one foot out (agree with some parts of the manifestations and yet dismiss others) or are full blown into the manifestation stuff….
I can’t speak for there being churches in New Zealand, but here in the US its becoming very difficult to find churches which do not fall on one or the other side of extremism: either accepting all manifestations as from God, or, dismissing all as demonic. Perhaps its all they can do, for they lack discernment to know the difference. Its sad…
More and more Christians here are resorting back to small in-home fellowships.
I understood the lack of the depth of the Word in their teaching, the lack of morals in some of their lives, ect, however, I had never heard of such a demon as this. I think I may have had it or still do, surely I have encountered this demon. I could tell you some stories that top any of these as I was in The New Testament Holiness Church then prior to that a smaller branch of that called The Church of Jesus Christ-not to be confused with any other church that starts with that name. This church is under the corporation of Brother David Terrell who calls himself a prophet of his many “churches” that he travels to to teach and prophesy to. He lives, at my last count in Brownsville, Texas. I was “saved, and filled with the Holy Spirit” at the age of 21 in this church ministry with the laying on of hands after over an hour of women singing and praying for me, while all of us standing and praying. Then, all of a sudden from what seemed like came from Heaven a fire like feeling hit me and I then, let out what sounded like a tribal wail from the depths of my guts and then I started to make some vocal sounds in another language. This was when I was 21, I am now 49. I also shook and trembled. There were more experiences over the 10 years that I stayed in this church and there was manipulation to keep me in the church and threats if I left. My son at the age of 4 almost died from pneumonia while we waited for God to heal him, until I disobeyed and took him to the hospital for help. It took me many years to get past the abuse that we suffered there.
Oh my God…..I have been to this same church. Will never go again!! Right now I am going through marital problems because of the mean legalistic people at this church. Spiritual abuse…..they talk about each…..they constantly asking for ” love” offerings, usually after they have shopped and have payments to make. The people are deceived. That tent prophet is worse.
Wow…I accidentally came across this. I know it’s been years…but I have to respond. The ministry you mention……I been there….done that. It’s perverse. Signs and wonders do not always come from God. These people in this ministry you mention are controlling, threatening, and manipulating. I married someone firectly involved in this ministry. The most unhappiest time of my life. David Terrell has fed off peoples fears for years. He puts fear in them to keep them following him. Ge is immoral….I have wtnessed it first hand. The pettis family follow him closely….Their children are grown and they are full of pride and boastful, years ago I was involved with R. Pettis. He is a pervert. But on the outward he follows God. The whole ministry us like that.
” I asked the Lord, “What/where now?” From Revelation I saw instruction: return to your first love and do the things you did at the first. I tried to obey that literally, listening to Keith Green, reading my Bible, praying, reading older authors, and listening to sermons from SermonIndex by folks like Art Katz, serving in love, sharing the gospel. We even went back to people we knew long ago but who had wronged us. I know the faith and the life we had in the first decade of our born again life was true and powerful and fruitful, so I’m “going back” there to the foundation which was true.”
That is also the prayer I pray very often- What Now? I got almost the exact same answer , and have been doing the same things you have. It feels good doesn’t it? Wonder what I did with my Keith Green tapes. Now if I can just find a tape player to play them on…
WILL THERE BE AN RUPTURE
I’m thinking you mean rapture?
The bible tells us that we will be caught up:
Hey, Wendy, it does feel good–not that we’re focused on a sensual feeling-oriented “faith”, but good like coming home and being innocent again.
My Keith Green is on vinyl!!! 🙂
Yes, most folks I knew from the start are in one extreme or the other. But I believe He s calling many of us back to an authentic apostolic lifestyle, and will give me opportunity to influence others to return.
Spiritual experiences are personal and should not be categorized. Also if the devil got it than we have to know that God has it first, because the devil is a counterfeiter of God. He has to do that to keep people away from the real one God has for His people. Also, we need to know that in the end times side by side with false prophets and signs and wonders by the devil, God also on His part promised that He also will shake the world with great works of wonders. We need to ask: so the devil is doing his part, but where is that of God? As spirit-filled believers we should believe for great displays of the supernatural too. How do we differentiate between what is the devil’ and what is God’s? Well, whose name did we use to bring on the manifestation? Will the devil respond to the name of God and vice versa? As one who believe in supernatural experiences, I like to add that as far as I know- what is God is an upper and what is the devil’s is a downer. Note the aftertaste.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. matthew 7
Note that those questioning Jesus used the name of Jesus.
I believe in the operating of the spiritual gifts today as well as true Holy Spirit manifestations. But have learned that just because something is done in Jesus name does not necessarily mean it’s from God.
see Sat May 23rd night service
Todd Bentley has an encounter with the Lord and repents…
But not clever enough……..There is NO angel who can heal and reference to ‘THE’ angel just slips off his tongue. We all know who ‘THE’ angel is of course.
And as for his listners/cheerers/followers, the line from P,P & M song comes to mind “When will they ever learn, when will they e…ver learn”.
My prayer will forever be “Lord have mercy”
Did you think he had really repented ha ha
I hadn’t visited his site for ages and so when I saw this I couldn’t believe it was just the same old story. If my memory serves me correctly he was cautioned at the end of the Lakeland saga not to mention angels even by those who supported Lakeland but the next night did his memorable angels, angels, angels rant.
I only watched about 10 mins of the above video, that was enough but he also said he believed in guardian angels. I am willing to stand corrected but I don’t think there is any scriptural argument that can be put forward to support the idea of guardian angels?
Hey just you watch it Jan, for all of a millisecond I thought YOU had actually fallen for his latest performance HA HA!
Andrew Strom is telling the unadulterated TRUTH and I was in some of these meetings and they are of jezebel the doctrines of demons and its time to CRY ALOUD SPARE NOT ( IS. 58:1 )Tell my People their Transgressions ,Remnant of GOD to save the sheep that are being led astray!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus said Follow Me not men and their kingdom and JESUS will hold the leaders accountable. They are held at a higher accountability so we need to be CLOSE to JESUS in this time Following Him FIRST the GREAT SHEPHERD !Revelation 18 says Come out of Babylon so you dont share in her judgements and Babylon is the 501c3 church that is under contract -covenant because they signed this 501c3 tax exemption with the government the church is seperate from state and you do not have to have this 501c3 it is the leaders choice are we serving the god of mammon or JESUS!!!??? AS for me and my House we serve the LORD! Seeek first the Kingdom and JESUS RIGHTEOUSNESS( his right way of doing things His WAY) And all these things will be added unto YOU!!!Says the LORD
Thank you so much for speaking out against this “false gospel”. It breaks my heart. I have a dear friend caught up all in this. I know she loves Jesus, but follows these people, going from place to place to try to catch “the anointing”. Sad to say, so many people are following these people and not Jesus.
I don’t know if anyone will read or respond as I see this message was posted in January. I met some people, who I trusted as friend, thinking they were Christians, five years ago through a prayer ministry. Some of them introduced me to their practices of experiencing the tangible presence of God. I didn’t know at the time that it was rooted in contemplative, New Age mysticism. I went to a meeting hosted by Patricia King with several of my friends in 2005 in Phoenix. Todd Bentley, Michael Terrell, Joshua Mills, Stacey Campbell, James Goll, and a couple other people were speakers. We experienced all sorts of strange manifestations. Since I was new to the prophetic and curious about it, I was observing much, but also experiencing alot, as well. I was skeptical and felt strongly that the manifestations were false, but my friends kept saying, “Oh, it’s real!” I started to believe them, and that’s when I became deceived for four years. I recently have come out of this deception. I cut off all association with my friends and no longer watch or listen to Patricia King, etc. I was strongly convicted by the Holy Spirit that what I was doing was not pleasing God and that I should return to my First Love, Jesus Christ. The thing was, I thought I was worshipping Jesus and spending hours in His presence while I was involved in contemplative things. I have repented, renounced and asked God to forgive me. I still struggle with whether or not I am really saved and I want peace that I am. I am thankful that God opened my eyes to the truth and that He has freed me from the deception I was under. My former friends are still deceived and leading “outpouring” meeting here as they were taught by a false prophet, who came to town two years ago. I participated in those meetings for awhile, but then I had nightmares and the Lord showed me that this was a false prophet and I was to depart from that fellowship and no longer participate in the meetings.
One thing that has bothered me is that I occasionally get attacked by demons as I am sleeping at night. I will awaken to something wrapped around my head or clinging to my back, and I cannot move or speak. I whisper Jesus’ name over and over and the demon finally flees. This has happened to me many times over the last 11 years. It happens less often, but I wonder why I get attacked like this and what to do so that it won’t happen again.
God bless you all and may you continue to stand strong in your faith in Jesus Christ and the truth of God’s Word!
Marcee, there is a Podcast called Future Quake on itunes with two hosts and one of them studies ‘sleep paralysis’ which sounds a lot like what you have been experiencing. You might want to check them out. I used to pray and cover myself with the blood before going to sleep at night to take care of dreams, that may be another option. All the best and I rejoice with you in the choice you have made.
Hi, Judith, thanks for the information on the sleep paralysis pod cast. I am listening to it tonight.
Could you please explain to me what you mean by this: “I used to pray and cover myself with the blood before going to sleep at night to take care of dreams, that may be another option”? How does covering yourself with the blood take care of dreams? What kind of dreams are you talking about, and what do dreams have to do with sleep paralysis? Thanks, Judith!
Marcee, many believers, (myself included) believe that speaking outloud, to remind demons of the power of Christ’s blood, serves them ‘notice’ to cease harassing God’s children.
If we are abiding in Christ then we were redeemed (purchased and justified) by Christ, through the shedding of his blood.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. romans 5
12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. hebrews 13
Satan [or demons] no longer have any power over us. BUT that doesn’t mean they won’t try to make us believe they do….we just need to remind them of who we are and more importantly, who we now belong to. (Demons hate the mention of the Cross and/or the Blood.)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses.Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.And having spoiled principalities and powers He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. col.2
Thanks for your comments, pjmiller. I know all about taking authority over demons. I was just wondering what Judith meant by applying the blood to take care of dreams. I don’t understand what the blood has to do with dreams.
Some people “plead the blood,” and I have done that, too, but I do not see any biblical basis for doing this. I do not want to abuse the power and authority of Jesus Christ and the precious blood He shed for the forgiveness of my sins. I do not wish to mock God or grieve the Holy Spirit. The Bible warns against this. I thank Jesus for His sacrifice on the cross on my behalf and that He rose victoriously from the dead so that I may have eternal life.
Carters, I am thankful that God opened your eyes to the truth. I can empathize with you as I, too, left a couple of churches that were demonstrating false manifestations, signs and wonders and whose teachings were not biblical. I now attend a church, where the Word is preached and repentance and prayer are a key component of every worship service. The ministers are God-fearing and very humble. They are very reverent to the Lord and do not place themselves on a pedestal. I will pray that you, too, Carters, will be able to find a church that is grounded in biblical truth.
Its good you’ve learned all about taking authority over demons. You shouldn’t have any problems with them 🙂
As for myself, they still continue to harass me on occasion, in dreams and through people. And that after virtually being ‘face to face’ with a variety of them during my time working in a deliverance ministry. @AHA
PJ, I still do get attacked by evil spirits, but the moment I feel an evil presence, I take authority and it leaves. All you have to say is: “In the name of Jesus!” and those evil spirits flee! I confront false prophets and warn people about them. Of course, any time the devil’s agenda is exposed, it makes him mad and he will try to discourage or distract us, but it never works. I find that false prophets are very cowardly and they get easily angered, but they soon stop trying to reason their cause with me when they know they have been exposed. If you have trouble recognizing or discerning if a prophet or teacher is false, start questioning them about their doctrine. You will know them by their fruit.
Hello again, thanks for sharing Marcee.
I got involved in “practising the presence” and “soaking”. It is so easy for Christians to get caught up in these false teachings because we trust these “leaders”, we see other Christians going along with it – so we don’t question it. [As a side note: Every Pentecostal church I have been involved in does not allow ‘questioning’ of any thing they do…they take it as undermining authority. In the most recent Pentecostal church we attended we were only “allowed” to discuss the sermon in home groups & if we questioned the contents of the sermon or used the Bible to ask questions then we were shut down].
Thankfully, it was when I was studying the Word that the still, quiet voice of the Lord spoke gently, telling me that my involvement in ‘soaking’ etc was not of Him. The fruit that came out of my life when I was involved in that “stuff” was aggressive, angry & self seeking. The Word of God tells us that the fruit of the Spirit is gentleness, kindness, humilty & love. There is nothing gentle, humble, quiet, self-less or peaceful about what is happening in these manifestations.
When I realised what I had got involved in, I started to see that I had been mixing with demonic stuff! Luckily I found a page dedicated to how to free yourself from these demonic and false spirits. http://mkayla.wordpress.com/freedom-from-false-spirits-of-revival/
This explained what had happend to me & how to be set free from the false spirits.
When I realised what I had been messing around with, I could not believe how sick & dangerous this stuff was! Out of all the sinful & demonic things I have ever been witness to in my life, this false spirit stuff was the WORST thing that I had ever encountered. It had such a grip over me that I did not even realise. The spiritual reprecussions of involvement in this false stuff is so awful & intense I cannot describe it. If anyone reading this is involved in this stuff or starting to question it, please read the links I attached to this comment & get set free from this spiritual path to darkness. It is a really big deal! And has major spiritual reprecussions on your life after death!
When we read the Word of God & when we are born again we know the real Spirit. Jesus is gentle, kind, loving & peaceful – this is the real Presence of the Holy Spirit. The minute you start seeing or feeling stuff that is contrary to the fruit of the Holy Spirit, run from it!
I have been in Pentecostal churches where Leaders are screaming in the services, they practice “spiritual warfare” that is not biblical & scream at the devil in thin air & charge accusations against him into thin air. I have seen leaders spend hours and hours ranting & screaming at the devil as part of their early morning routine. The focus on the devil is unreal! This goes against the what the Word of God tells us (Jude 3). I have seen leaders who show no kindness or gentleness. Leaders who are aggressive. Leaders who teach a 2 tiered level of Christianity – you HAVE to be baptised in the Holy Spirit, unless you have a second subsequent baptism (of the Holy Spirit) then you are not saved & not an effective Christian. This they say is evidenced by all speaking in tongues. Yet the Word says that not everyone will have the gift of speaking in tongues. Easily lead Christians start babbling nonsense to try and “fit it”. A 2 tiered Christianity exists in these churches – the “we are better than you” because we have the “spirit” & we all speak in tongues.
Why do Christians so easily get lead by these false teachings & false spirits?
Why do we not read the Bible for ourselves & see the Truth?
There has been a moving away from Christians being students and learners of the Word. Instead Christians are swayed by the charisma of leader’s personalities. Christians prefer topical sermons that make them feel good, teaching from the Bible gets a brief mention. The leaders set themselves up as their congregation’s “personal” Jesus. Instead of leading their congregation towards the Word & Jesus Himself, they want them to come to them for help & rely on them and their spiritual warfare & “deliverance” weekends to be set free. They are creating a dependance onto Leaders instead of a dependence upon God & His Word.
In these end times we have turned into a generation that seeks after charisma, aggressive loud , manipulative persons & experiences. We are a generation that is self serving & wanting the experience to make us feel good. Rather than seekers of the quiet still voice & students of the Word of God.
The Word of God says that we are to choose the narrow way. The narrow way is not fun, is it not self seeking & it is not easy. Jesus said you would give up your life. Why don’t the prosperity (health & wealth) teachers, teach about how difficult it is for the wealthy to enter the Kingdom of God. Why don’t they teach about the masses of Christians overseas in persecuted countries being tortured for their faith & suffering for Jesus. The Word talks about beating your flesh. How suffering for your faith in this world is a normal part of Christianity.
Jesus spoke of the difficulty of the rich entering the Kingdom of heaven so why do Christians really think that God would send money & jewels & gold dust from heaven as a sign? Why do all the Leaders of these movements live in such affluence, when Jesus preached & taught the opposite lifestyle? Anything that is associated with “wealth” like money & jewels” should be a sure sign of the opposite spirit because it flatters the flesh!
The Word speaks of this:
Humilty. Gentleness. Peace. Controlled behaviour. Quiet Prayer. Meekness. Modesty. Love. Self-lessness
When you see a leader or a church pushing anything else than what you know as fruit of the real Spirit, flee from it! I know that the Word speaks of how those with knowledge will be judged greater than those without knowledge, We live in places where we all “know” what the Bible teaches, we “know” what the real fruit of the Spirit is – so we will be held accountable for this knowledge & therefore held accountable for following teachers & manifestations that are contrary to this.
As a word of encouragement – if you already know that there is something “not right” in these churches/manifestations then that is a sign that you have the true Light in you! Be encouraged & don’t worry that you are “not saved”. By knowing there is something wrong in those places shows you are saved! The “Truth” will set you free!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! When that Lakeland thing was on, people from church kept talking about it and how the Spirit of God was moving so greatly there. I tried to watch it one time on TV and watched only a few minutes, when God said “NO!” I tried a couple more times to watch Lakeland on TV and if felt like God was FORBIDDING me to watch, so I didn’t. A few months later, I attended a service held in Knoxville, TN by someone associated with Bentley and Bob Jones, and when they started laying hands on people, I knew they were NOT going to even touch me! I would have climbed over chairs or whatever to prevent those people from touching me. At the time, I didn’t know exactly what was wrong, but I knew this “movement” and “presence” was not of my GOD. I just could not believe I was the ONLY one from my church that felt that way about these people.
Thank you for confirming my feelings and for warning the people!
“heavey is the weight of judgement on my poor heart”
“…and if this time was not cut short, even the elect would be deceived.” (Rev.)
Thank you for speaking forth the truth of the Word of God. What you neglect to emphasize is that when Todd Bentley lays his hands on people, people become possessed by at least one of the legions of demons that this demonic fool carries with him. This garbage theology is straight from the pit of hell and it is also tearing up families. My oldest daughter has become a part of this movement through her attending Oral Roberts University. What used to be the truth to her has now become lies. What used to be lies to her has now become the truth. She now no longer has anything to do with me or the rest of her family. From every indication that she has given us, I believe she is now demon possessed.
By the way, I was also once involved in the Charismatic movement. I attended CFNI in Dallas Texas and at one time, I was even a (paid) assistant pastor in a charismatic church. God, through His rich grace and mercy shut (slammed) the door of my involvement with the charismatic movement and as a result, we’ve been in a home church for most of the past ten years.
I strongly believe that we are in the last days. Jesus said that He would not return till there first be a great falling away. We are witnessing this great falling away before our eyes. Even so, come soon Lord Jesus.
I’m sorry to hear about the experience you have had with your daughter’s deception and eventual falling away from truth. I don’t think, however, that the proper response to it is to condemn the “charismatic movement” as a whole. To do that is to “throw out the baby with the bath water.” The charismatic renewal/movement has done amazing things for the body of Christ, including bringing back the use of tongues, healings, prophecy, etc. into church life. These are all Biblically substantiated appearances of the Holy Spirit. We have an adversary that wants to thwart all moves of God and pollute them so that he can deceive many. The devil did it throughout the old testament, through the early church, and it would be foolish to think that he wasn’t doing it still today. The kundalini spirit’s presence in the charismatic movement is just one of the devil’s deceptions to lure people away from truth. Our job is to expose it and stand for the truth. The charismatic movement is not the deception. Parts of it have been deceived, yes. But not ALL of it. There is still plenty of GOOD in it, because God is in it and His Holy Spirit is still at work in the lives of believers. I agree that we are in the end times, and we need to be sober minded and attentive. I also attended CFNI and I am grieved to see them beginning to lean more towards kundalini manifestations in their services. That wasn’t permitted when Mrs. Lindsay was alive. The school leadership needs wisdom from God in this time. Please join us in PRAYER for the school and for the charismatic movement – that they will not continue into deception any further, but turn away and follow truth.
May I reply to Dave 2, concerning his advice to Zoe.
1 CORINTHIANS 12 v 1 – 3.
“no-one speaking by The Spirit of God [meaning no-one prompted and led by The Spirit of God] calls Jesus accursed.” So if someone comes along saying follow me, and I will show you God, but at the same time rejects, blasphemes, and curses Jesus – know that the person is NOT led by The Holy Spirit. Remeber The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; The Three are One, and The Three agree!
“and no-one can say [meaning it is not true of someone to say] Jesus is Lord except by The Holy Spirit.”
Remember, Jesus had commanded us to be baptized with The Holy Spirit, He gave His Life so that we could be baptized with The Holy Spirit, we MUST be baptized with The Holy Spirit, and Paul understood that if Christ (The anointing – which is the baptism with The Holy Spirit) is NOT in us (JOHN 14 v 20), then we are none of His, or do not belong to Him via the correct relationship, that narrow Way.
None of the above are implying that we can or cannot speak out certain words, we have the freedom of will, and resposibility to control what we say.
Didn’t Jesus say “why do you call me Lord,Lord, and not do what I tell you?”
“Many will say to Me on that day Lord,Lord, and I will say to them, I never knew you.”
There is no test in saying “Jesus is Lord”, anyone can speak what ever words they choose to, it proves nothing; this Scripture is just telling us to be careful, sincere, wise, and honest.
Not being careless in who, or what we follow; and not being careless in the claims we make about ourselves. If Jesus is indeed our Lord, let it be established within His Own precepts, and not our’s.
Zoe, I understand how you feel, I have been there myself; DO NOT go looking for eveil spirits within you! DO NOT do that ever! for Satan and his cohorts will join in and torment, and accuse you falsely! The best advice I can give you, is to literally turn your back to all that you now believe was false, knowing God rescued you from the danger, and just read your Bible, and let God’s Word continue to lead you, teach you, and guide you.
Zoe, read MARK 16 v 18, “if they drink anything deadly, it shall by no means hurt them.” Jesus is talking about those who are faithful to Him, to His Word.
The deadly drink, is false doctrine (the poison of asps is upon their lips), I to have drunk this doctrine, I have heard it, and so learnt it, but God, through His Spirit and His Word, helped me; I am nolonger in that place of deception, and neither are you. Hold fast to what you know to be true, and study Scripture, asking, and trusting God to help you; and remember, it is God’s responsibility to help you, what can we possibly do without God’s help, but God gave us all we need to walk in Truth, it is Scripture, and what we do not know, cannot help us. Scripture is so very very important, that is why Satan has done all he can, to corrupt the message, and steal away God’s Word from our hearts and minds.
I will say it again Zoe, do not go looking for evil spirits within you, just read your Bible, and obey what you read, renewing your mind in Christ, and guess what, Satan will flee from you, he will flee from you! Satan will fear you! Don’t fear Satan, fear God. Don’t become proud, don’t reject counsel, but remember Jesus told us that He is to be our ONLY Teacher, and Jesus is also called The Word of God isn’t He – Scripture. And The Holy Spirit will bring no message of His Own, He too is bound by God’s Word, and will not deviate from Scripture, and will not corrupt Scripture.
Keep reading, keep praying, God has already helped you, that is why you are where you are, you have already listened to Him, that is why you are where you are, so REJOICE, and continue your walk with Him. The joy of The Lord is our strength.
Zoe, this is how we know which spirit/Spirit has our attention – what are or beliefs and opinions, how do we conduct ourselves, what are our ‘fruits.’ This is how we test the sprits, within ourselves, and within others. Do you remember Paul said of himself, I did not know I was coveting, until I knew the Law (Scripture) said do not covet. Everything always comes back to Scripture, read, learn, and if you love God, and if I love God, we will freely choose to obey, treasuring our relationship with God, our Father.
Whilst on this site, I would like to share a few things about the fellowship I was in, when I was introduced to the Toronto Blessing. And I would ask you to ask yourselves, could, and would, God approve of, and encourage, by way of a supposed ‘blessing,’ a fellowship in which these doctrines were taught?
It is interesting to mention, that after I corrected the minister, asking the family to stop hurting each other, and pointing out that Gwen Shaw was wrong about ‘Joel’s army’, I was not permitted to fall, when prayed for, my chair was not moved, no-one was there to catch me, and yet I still felt as if I was being ‘slain,’ wanting to fall, believing it to be a good thing, an encouraging thing, a ‘blessing,’ but was told to stand. Upon raising concerns about Gwen Shaw’s teaching, I was looked at by the minister and his family, as if I had just grown an extra head, and was told to “just accept it,” by the minister’s daughter, who was soon to join the ETHM. I was not the only one to raise concerns about Gwen Shaw’s teaching, the minister’s wife did also, and possibly some others, but our concerns were dismised with the reply, “well that is what they are teaching in America!” from where the minister and his family had just returned.
I will just add, that I loved the fellowship very much; I had serious concerns about our behaviour, and some doctrine, and I would stay away for as much as five months at a time, trying to think things through, but it was the only fellowship in our area, where people were baptized with The Holy Spirit, which we all were, and where we all spoke in tongues (but if we have not love), and that was important. We also received prophecy, and it was this prophecy that helped me, and continues to help me through this situation, and others.
The minister would always go to the church building half an hour before the start of each meeting, to, in his own words – “cast out the evil spirits that were brought into the building by the people who attended the previous meeting.”
They believed God would make them rich with homes, cars, fine clothes, money, “far beyond what we could ever ask or think.”
Rings around the eyes.
were all said to be indications of evil spirits witthin people.
Evil spirits were said to be able to pass into us via gifts, hugs, a handshake, clothes etc.
The minister’s son believed God could write him out a million pound cheque, and pay it into his bank account for him.
The minister claimed to have miraculously driven through a deer that jumped out infront of him, whilst driving at 90 mph on a local main road.
The minister claimed that God was putting oil in his tractor for him, which had a leak; but it was not true, he simply didn’t know the correct way to check the oil level.
The minister stole seed.
The minister laughed to know some of his sheep had died.
The minister would appear to use ‘word of faith’ to help him do his work, rather than actually do the work himself, which may have cost him his farm.
The minister claimed to have cast out thousands of eveil spirits, form various people, including born-again Christians.
The minister would encourage us to pray against an evil spirit he said was within a born-again member of the fellowship, but he would not tell us what he was accusing her of.(serious danger of blasphemy of The Holy Spirit)
The minister would tell us that God had shown him something about us all, but that he could not tell us what it was.
The minister said we had all done something different when we took bread and wine one day, saying its no good you looking, you wont see it.
The minister’s daughter had a nervous-breakdown because of constant belittling teasing within the family, she later committed adultery.
Two members of the fellowship (one a school teacher, who was trying to get the minister to go to the school, and talk to the children) were caused to believe (due to this constant suspicion of evil spirits) that they had an overwhelming desire to kill their two young children, due to a spirit of suicide within their home.
A visiting minister told our fellowship, that three ex-prostitutes that had joined his church, were like three shining lights in the church, and that it was great to have them. The following Sunday, our minister said to the whole fellowship, “we don’t want that sort in our church.”
The minister believed there was no need to be baptized in water. And that the only reason to be baptized with The Holy Spirit, was to “get the POWER!!!!!!!!” Saying that people were still Christians, without being baptized with The Holy Spirit.
My friend, who still goes to the fellowship (the teacher; baptized in water, and baptized with The Holy Spirit in Oxford University), was raising questions about the minister’s behaviour, their love of money, and the Toronto Blessing; the minister found out that she “did not know what to make of him at times,” and one day said to her, infront of the fellowship – “I have a message for you from God – ‘why do you not believe?'” She now questions nothing, and defends the minister, and the Toronto blessing.
The minister told us that God had spoken a powerful prophecy over him, but that he could not tell us what it was, but he wanted us to know it was very powerful.
The minister was rude, and proud.
Eighteen months after I was expelled from the fellowship, I asked to speak to the minister, to warn him of the dangers of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, when accusing born-again Christians of having evil spirits in them, and not telling the fellowship why the accusations were made.
When I told him about the distress he had caused me, when I was expelled from the fellowship, he could not stop laughing; he was rocking on his chair with laughter, a horrible laugh. He said I must agree with Him, when I said I thought we were to agree with Jesus, he became angry, and stopped the meeting.
I have lost many friends from the church, been called a wolf, told there is something filthy and foul in me, thretened with solicitors, as I have put up posters to warn people about such doctrine, and the Toronto Blessing.
I have writen to the Government, Police, schools, TV, Radio, Courts, other churches, Doctors, Papers, and others, even Prof Richard Dawkins, to try and draw attention to what such churches are doing.
I have seen a man who used to attend the fellowship, in tears when he returned one evening, but the minister just said – “he must listen to me!” What the disagreemnt was, I do not Know.
To add a little to my questioning of why we assume the manifestations of the Toronto Blessing are a Godly, or in anyway a Holy witness, take a look at this:
The manifestation of the eagle – HOSEA 8 v 1. DEUTERONOMY 28 v 58.
The manifestation of the bull – PSALM 22 v 1 – 13.
The donkey – JEREMIAH 22 v 18 – 19.
Hopping, running, wielding a sword like a warrior. JOEL 1 v 4.(Amplified) JOEL 2 v 7 – 9. JOEL 2 v 5.
God is NOT the author of confusion, it does not benefit God to be the author of confusion.
We cannot afford to make any assumptions, we need to know and understand our faith.
What is achieved by the manifestations of the Toronto Blessing? It gains peoples attention, causing people to revere the proponents of it, and we give those proponents a greater degree of trust, and acceptance, because of the manifestations that appear to be created within their presence, and at their behest. We assume that God is in approval of their ministry (leading, example, and instruction), because we think God is actually joining in with the person’s ministry, because we believe the manifestations are the work of God, because we are told they are, by the minister; and that is what it all comes down to, what we have been required to believe, without any Scriptual foundation upon which to build our belief. The false signs and wonders (manifestations) are there purely to make an impression upon us, to gain our trust, to gain our confidence, and then the real deception begins; a deception which is more mundane than many people recognize, simlpy to corrupt the fruit of God’s Spirit, to corrupt our nature, to corrupt our LOVE, to change our behaviour!
JOEL 1 v 8. JOEL 2 v 12 – 32. MALACHI 3 v 1 – 7. PROVERBS 3 all.
JACKALS, OWLS, OSTRICHES, RAVENS, GOATS – their presence in this situation is indicative of desolation! ISAIAH 34 all.
MATTHEW 24 v 4 – 25.
Do you think we would behave differently if we understood JOHN 3 v16, is the same as GALATIANS 3 v 26 – 27, and the same as James telling us that faith without actions is dead? And see LUKE 7 v 29 – 30. And Romans 8. and 2 CORINTHIANS 13 v 5. JOHN 14 v 15 – 24. LUKE 12 v 50. MATTHEW 22 v 10 – 13. Why have we so misunderstood baptism? The very thing Jesus gave His Life for, to enable us to receive.
Do people understand that revival is simply remembrance, returning to the Truth, not some new thing such as the Toronto Blessing.