Jesus did not come to be the Messiah?
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1John 2:22
I saw mention of his book, In Defense of Israel, and the comments by John Hagee around the internet today, and went searching for the clip in which he made some ’supposed’ statements. I say supposed because I had to hear it for myself…
-Jesus did not come to Earth to BE the Messiah.
-Jesus refused by word and deed to be the Messiah.
-The Jews cannot be blamed for not accepting what was never offered.
After finding a clip and hearing the man myself, the only thing I can say is he is now a heretic in my book.
From The Threshingfloor:
Is Hagee NOT rejecting the truth of the entire New Testament account of Jesus’ ministry? What then could the Lord have possibly meant when He proclaimed openly in the synagogue at Nazereth:
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised…”-Luke 4:18
***************
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:13-17
And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:60-62
Filed under: False Teachings, Jesus, The Apostasy, The Church, Theology
A Christian woman, whose husband is a resident at the same nursing home as my father, told me about this recently. I too wanted to hear it for myself. She said she would find out the tape title/number for me. She always has John Hagee’s program on in her husband’s room. She had not been aware of his unscriptural teachings. When she heard him say . . .
- “Jesus did not come to Earth to BE the Messiah.
- Jesus refused by word and deed to be the Messiah.
- The Jews cannot be blamed for not accepting what was never offered.”
she told me that she’s been telling everyone she knows what he said. I didn’t say much at the time but I thought God is alerting His people. Sometimes we have to hear something totally outrageous before we pay attention. That’s sort of what happened to me.
[...] http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/jesus-did-not-come-to-be-the-messiah/ [...]
im glad the Lord is revealing truth and delivering His outta the hands of the wicked…im just not sure why anyone is suprised…televangelists neva preach true gospel and they live like the world…really…ima be real surprised if i hear em sayin Truth…be bless… -g-
I can’t say i was totally surprised by this, but did want to hear it for myself….
John Hagee stepped over the line when he got involved in the Christian Zionist movement and began to slowly leave the doctrines of Christ for politics and a spiritually “unhealthy” obsession with the land of Israel. I know he denies it, but i really believe he holds to a dual covenant form of theology—which is born out of classic dispensationalist teachings.
You figure he’s been stating for some time now that he believes that Jews should not be evangelized: that goes totally against the word of God, for Jesus in Mark 16 said:
So it shouldn’t surprise anyone now that he is fallen even more into deception and is making further false statements like those in this clip and in his newest book.
This man, who once preached the true gospel, should be a warning for all believers today. Especially those who hold to this classic form of dispensationalism.
Its frightening Cathy…for i don’t doubt there are many many other Christians who believe just as he does.
Hi g…
Yes, i have to sadly agree with you. ‘If’ there is one preacher on TV which is still preaching the truth, there are 50 more that aren’t!
God bless!
[...] Oct 19th, 2007 by John From Sola Dei Gloria: [...]
Well I knew John Hagee had went over the line with his two covenant doctrine, and now he is just coming out and explicitly saying it.
With the current sad climate of Evangelicalism with no backlash against the other heretical statements by some other big names he must be feeling overly confident in his heretical stance.
The wolves are coming out in the open.
More reason to stay close to the Word of God.
Good catch on this one, I linked to it.
a few years back I was listening to Hagee in his ministering and really looked forward toward the next time he would be on the radio… until I found out he was involved with the Pyramid Preachers (TBN).
I remember one night saying: sure do pray this man stays true Lord, because it seems anyone who involves themself with TBN eventually gets infected with their twisted ideas. It is almost as if they wait till there is a huge following and Kabam out comes the hidden agenda…
ever wonder why those people are so closely knitted together?
I seriously believe it is Hypnotic.
anyway… darkness does not stay hidden for long… it is dying to get out.
Now we see the darkness in his heart; therefore we can mark him as such…
FALSE PROPHET!
Yes oxy, I believe it is supernatural also.
Your comment jarred my own memory Oxy. I too remember making a similar comment to i ‘believe’ one of my sons. This was back when most everyone [everyone i knew, anyway] was in the process of having their eyes opened to all the false teachers on TBN. Someone had made the remark that John Hagee was one of the very few on TBN which still preached the gospel..
I pray this man comes to his senses & realizes what he is doing before its too late.
John, that was my thought too. He’s denied more then once that he holds to the belief of dual covenant theology, but his own words (again) betray him.
He speaks of his love for Israel and the Jewish people…pointing the finger at all who dare to disagree with his theological and end-time beliefs as antisemitic & ‘against God’…not realizing it is he who is not showing real love by refusing to tell them of Christ Jesus.
(thanks for the link)
Wait a minute. Something is wrong here. I just viewed this video. And i noticed something… John Hagee’s ‘voice’ is at least three seconds behind his lips. In fact it looks like some kind of voice over. Since his lips do not seem to be pronouncing the words at all.
Crysta
[...] http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/jesus-did-not-come-to-be-the-messiah/ [...]
Shocking, just shocking!
I dropped Hagee like a hot potato several months ago when I saw him say on TBN that Paul Crouch “has not forsaken the old paths”. If he could say that there is something very wrong with him. But I never would have dreamed any of them would go as far as to say Jesus is not the Messiah, regardless of what they meant by it. That is definitely a shocking new low. Makes you wonder who all these people really are. It’s all straight from hell imo.
Crysta i noticed the quality wasn’t as good on the one posted on youtube also…but the one posted at thethreashingfloor link is better. What is seen in the clip is actually taken from his TV program, which also may be available to be viewed at his website–i know the book is offered there. He was quoting from his book.
Hi Joel…
Yes i agree it is shocking, but to be honest it didn’t surprise me. I’m tempted to get a copy of the book..but hesitate to do so only because i would feel as though i would be supporting and donating to his beliefs by putting out $$.
Kate, i haven’t watched him for the last 2 years..i stopped watching TBN around that time.
You know, i use to watch TBN back in 1981..back then they did follow the old path. The first time i found them [the picture was fuzzy, and it was only on 6-8 hours daily] i was thrilled. Those were the days when they had on the PTL nightly program, some great preachers…and teachers. Dr. Walter Martin was one who appeared regularly. I’ve often wondered what he would think about the network today.
We sure are living in some dangerous times. Men and women of God who once taught/preached the gospel are falling away into apostasy so fast, its hard to keep up.
[...] http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/jesus-did-not-come-to-be-the-messiah/ [...]
Blasphemous….
Please tell this to others in your church, fellowships, friends of Pastor John Hagee’s error. This false teaching needs to be exposed to the light. If I would not of seen this on YouTube and heard it in his own voice, I may of not of believed these could of be coming from Pastor Hagee. Shocking…more evidence we are in the last days.
I documented his heresy with a number of complete quotes from his book “In Defense of Israel.” You can read it here:
http://www.biblewheel.com/RR/Hagee_Defense_of_Israel.asp
randall, like you i had to hear it myself.
I had seen a mention of it but didn’t want to post anything until checking it out. I agree, its blasphemous.
What has surprised me more then anything is that i have seen reference made concerning this, on some Christian boards/forums, and many are defending him–in fact, a few agreeing with Hagee.
Yes, it is evidence of the last days…
Richard…
I just read through your post on biblewheel…What an excellent post and job you did at pointing out the heresy’s in the book!
Hope it ok, im going to post a link to your documentation of the quotes from the book. I was hoping someone might have had more info on the specifics within it–thank you so much for sharing!
[...] you had any lingering doubt that Hagee did not mean exactly what he said on the youtube video, after reading this you won’t. I say that with grief and sadness… These are the [...]
Hi everyone,
I am a person who has recently seen the truth and “come out” of Hagee’s church. I’ve heard him say on many, many Sundays that “he loves it when the heat is turned up and people are talking against him.”
Honestly, I don’t know what has happened to him in the last few years, he didn’t used to be this messed up. I think all the money has twisted his brains. It seems God has given him over to a reprobate mind.
I loved my church family and am so grieved to see what he has become and the path he is leading innocent people down. It is the road to hell……it must be. It is all so hard for me to believe….shocking is a better word. A prominent man in my community told me that he was at a social gathering with Hagee and that Hagee chased around this rich businessman all night. He described it as Hagee following him around with his hand and tongue hanging out like a starving dog. This man told me that is why he has nothing to do with church, “they’re hypocrites.” What a terrible witness to the unsaved.
Hagee has surely gotten in bed (so to speak) with the TBN gang with all their heresy. They are laughing all the way to the bank. I remember several years ago when Hagee told us as a congregation about Paul Crouch’s gay affair. I wonder if Hagee was still normal then?
Since my departure I feel so lost, and I don’t trust any preachers and won’t dare try to go to church again. I’m sure there are good pastors in my area, I just don’t know where. Paula White spoke at Cornerstone recently, she has also moved to the San Antonio area, as well as having a condo in the Trump Towers. What is it with San Antonio? I know they target the poor……..
I sent quite a bit of money to TBN over the years, but I gave more to Hagee’s church. I’ve asked for my money back at TBN, and of course they said no. So I filed with the BBB in California and another website called RipOff Report. I’m thinking of writing to the FCC as well.
What a scam!!
Be blessed all of you and remember when the nay-sayers tell you “not to touch God’s anointed” or “judge not lest ye be judged.” Tell them that Christians are supposed to expose false doctrine!! Jesus did it and so did Paul - hopefully that is good enough for them.
In my opinion, the pimps are anointed with greasy grace and they have spewed vomit all of the Holy Word of God.
BoycottTBN
Hi…Thank you so much for sharing: it sounds as though you
were at Corner Stone Church for some years.
Its hard, i know. When my old church fell into apostasy and God led me out, leaving those i loved behind, was one of the hardest things i’ve ever been called upon to do, as was the sense afterwards, of not knowing where i belonged.
Looking back though, i can now see it was during the weeks and months after leaving, that i finally began to understand i am the church–one of the stones which make up that Grand and Beautiful ‘building’ which is called The Church. We who are in Christ, are abiding ‘in the Beloved’….regardless of if we’re in or out of a specific church or denomination.
God will lead you to a fellowship and place of worship. There are still many Churches out there which do still preach Christ alone. Many of them though, i’ve found, are small congregations.
The TBN thing…yes i can see how Hagees continued involvement with them could have been a huge influence on him. But in the end, it will be John Hagee alone, who will answer for ‘John Hagee’. The few ministry’s left on that network who haven’t fallen into the TBN mind-set yet, would be wise to leave it.
God bless…
John Hagee has fallen - who then is the whore of Babylon but the one who denies Christ - the antichrist. The house is burning just like California is going up in flames. Hell is very hot.
If you love Jesus / Y’SHUA - the Savior of Jews and Gentiles -remember these verses : Romans 1:16 … Salvation to the Jew First then the Gentile… Romans 2:8 …Tribulation to the Jew First, then the Gentile … Honor and Glory and Peace to the Jew First, then the Gentile… The Jew is always first…
John 4:22 : …We worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews.
JESUS came to the “lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matthew 10:6) . As you go make this proclamation: “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers drive out demons…” or Mark 7:27 :”Let the children (Jews) be fed first. For it is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.” (Gentiles) (2
She replied and said to him, “Lord, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s scraps.” (29) Then he said to her, “For saying this, you may go. The demon has gone out of your daughter.” (30) When the woman went hone, she found the child lying in bed and the demon gone.
But here is the truth as the rubber hits the road :
Philippians 2:9-11 :… that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.
It could not be any clearer that this - or how about John 14:6 :
“I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me.” There is only one way to Heaven and that is with JESUS in the heart of all mankind.
Repent and turn from your wicked ways. God’s arms are stretched out with compassion, come to Me, He says, My love is heavenly, but first you must come to me because I love you UNCONDITIONALLY.
Monique
Whoa what is going on here? I didn’t watch the video but is this for real? Has Hagee misspoken or something? Someone please tell me this is some kind of sick joke or something.
Hello William..
no, im sorry to say its not a joke. There are some links in a few of the posts on this which might interest you–they are reviews of the book by a couple different Christians–one, a Christian leader in Uganda.
Wonderful to hear of others whose eyes are seeing and whose ears who are hearing… Bless the Lord oh my soul.
Yes, God is revealing the hearts of the men and women who are saying: The Oracle of God, The Oracle of God, when God has not spoken.
John Chapter 4:25
” The woman said, “I know that Messiah is coming, when he comes he will explain everything to us.
Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am He.”
Amazing how people like Hagee can get so entrenched in thier own agenda that they forget to monitor themselves by the whole counsel of God.
Hi Mark…
you’re right. There is an agenda here..and Hagee has allowed it to come before Christ and the Word of God. That’s the only explanation i can come to, knowing this man probably has read the bible through from beginning to end, for years…
There is no way he cannot ‘know’ that the word Christ itself, in many of the new testament passages, is translated Messiah. I’m sure no theologian, and i know it.
Thanks for stopping by…
God bless
We will pray for all of you because you have judged one incorrectly and spread it like feathers from a torn pillar.
My pastor, John Hagee, knows the Word, speaks it flawslessly, and lives it in his house. You would have shown Christian maturity with your mis-understanding to have written him personnally to state your position and to learn his response. Now, you have effected many who are either weak in the Word or looking for division in the Christian ranks to compromise the greatest effort to unite Christians for a common cause organized by John Hagee.
Our prayers will be focused on your williness to forgive as we forgive you, and to ask for forgiveness.
A brother in Christ,
Hello Fred..
Thanks for stopping by.
I understand your loyalty if he is your pastor, but there is no way to deny he is teaching and preaching a dual covenant form of theology. By his very words (which have been quoted in the couple posts here on this–including links to the sources) he affirms that he sees no reason to offer the Gospel to lost Jews, believing when Jesus came it was not as the Messiah to the Jews.
How does that stand up to the Word my friend? it doesn’t.
The first sermon preached by Peter (a Jew) on the day of pentecost (Acts 2) resulted in the adding of about 3,000 to the Church (verse 41)…Jews!
There are Jews today, as there are non-Jews, who are hearing the Gospel message, and are being saved and added to the Body of Christ. So Hagee’s belief, that Jews are blind and so there-for should not be presented with the Gospel of Christ, is ridiculous and unbiblical.
There is one Messiah–Christ Jesus. Who came for all: that includes Jews and Gentiles of all nations; and it is ONLY through Christ that anyone obtains salvation.
First, what is his ’cause’? Is it taking the Gospel into the world to ALL the lost? No, not by his own words, its not. What is he trying to unite Christians to my friend, the land of Israel or Christ? Israel [the land] did not hang upon the Cross & die, being raised on the 3rd day, for my sins or yours–Jesus did.
Error is to be pointed out..as well as those who teach it. In the case of John Hagee & any other well known TV preacher it has to be pointed out, especially to those young in the faith. Souls are at stake.
My little blog isn’t a discernment or apostasy blog–but when i a follower of Christ Jesus, see and know someone as well known as Hagee is teaching error and he is leading others into this same error, i will use this little blog to point it out. As a Christian, i would be remiss if i failed to do so.
Fred… God bless you. But please, for the sake of the one who died for you, do your own outside investigation on the teachings of your pastor. Don’t just believe what he says from the pulpit.
To PJMiller,
I knew this about John Hagee when he started having Jewish Rabbi’s on TV and never told them the Gospel message but agreed with their theology instead. But I am a Classic Dispensationalist and I understand the Bible without Hagee’s radical theology. I personally think that Covenant Theology is the problem. It leads to spiritualizing or allegorizing parts of Scripture. Don’t blame dispensationalists for his problem. I clearly and literally understand what the Bible says. So please don’t catagorize all of us who believe the Bible literally where it should be literal with the likes of John Hagee.
Thanks
Which is more dangerous secular TV or Christian TV? I’m glad the truth about folks like Hagee is finally coming out. I seriously hope the poor folks in his church will start bolting now that his convictions are in the open.
Pam, hi…
Sorry if it sounded as though i was clumping anyone who held to a dispensationlist view in with John Hagee’s newest teachings. I wasn’t…
There is a HUGE difference between covenant theology and dual covenant theology.
Here’s a good link which has many excellent articles on both covenant, reformed, dispensationalism, etc etc..there is even an article or two on dual covenant. HERE
It was only early this year, after believing myself to be a dispensationalist for 27 years of serving the Lord, that i did my own indepth study on the topic–I know that sounds weird, but it was all i knew or had been taught..so i just accepted it. I’m not a theologian, believe me. Just someone who wanted to find some answers as to why i found myself disagreeing with so many of my Dispensationalist friends on topics pertaining to last day prophecy.
I started with DT and moved on into covenant, reformed etc…im still studying a lot of the latter 2.
What i found out helped me a lot….and it helped me to understand why so many Christians today, like Hagee, are falling into the belief of a dual covenant form of theology. Much of it sprang from the teachings within the last 100-150 years of Darby and Scofield who taught a metaphysical distinction between Israel and the Church…believing there would forever be an eternal separation between Israel and the Church of Christ.
Through Jesus, that wall which separated the two was tore down:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Eph. 2:13-15
After coming to understand that point in particular, i could no longer say i was a classic dispensationalist.
God bless…
Yemi..its a toss up! LOL!
I’d have to say Christian TV .
Incredible! Yet Hagee’s church is filled to rafters every Sunday.
It is hard to believe that John Hagee would say such a thing I went to his web site and look at what he believes and he says He believes that Jesus is the only way to the Father, why would a person say such a thing, he has gone off the deep end to say the lest. If he believes what he is saying about Jesus not being the Messiah he must be lost himself for Jesus is the only way to the Father.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. and Jesus went on to say
“John 5:38-40 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
If we are to have eternal life and go to Heaven we must believe that JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Why John Hagee would say such a thing is beyond me.
Someone please get John Hagee to read the following in John 20:31:
“but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ [or the Messiah], the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”
it just gets more disturbing everyday… i can’t watch John Hagee because he yells too much, i suppose that’s why he “seemed” ok to me… i was only seeing bits and pieces and hearing from folks who like him… the article from Biblewheel was very helpful because i thought maybe the video was just being sensational to get people to read the book… thanks for the article, which clearly says the things Hagee believes…
Yes, it is hard to believe…I’ve read at his website also…you’re right! He does say he believes Jesus is the only way to the Father (and salvation)…but he denies that Jesus is the only way for the Jewish people to receive salvation.
*from The Other Gospel of John Hagee, found at PFO Research:
“I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption.”9
The Houston newspaper then quoted Hagee’s own shocking words: “I’m not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith.”
“In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity, he says.”11
Hagee went on to tell the Houston reporter that Paul abandoned the idea of Jews knowing Christ when he went to the Gentiles.
Christian Research Institute has also reported on this highly unorthodox view held by Hagee:
“Information about Hagee from other sources reveals he seriously differs with the vast majority of dispensational teachers because he believes that Jewish people do not need to be saved, since they are under a different covenant.”12
In his summation Hagee leaves no question at all as he states:
“There are Jewish people who have relationship with God right now according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:5) … The Jewish people are judicially blinded to the identity of Messiah… Question: If God blinded the Jewish people to the identity of Jesus as Messiah, how could He send them to hell for not seeing what he had forbidden them to see? … Inasmuch as God has blinded them to the identity of Messiah, targeting the Jewish people for mass evangelism is fruitless.”16 -
In a nutshell and in plain language what he believes is that anyone and everyone, BESIDES the Jews, needs Christ to obtain salvation–he also believes they do not need to hear the Gospel, nor do they need Jesus Christ, the Messiah, to be saved. That God has ‘another’ way for them to obtain right standing with God, and eternal life. Thats Dual Covenant theology–a damnable heresy.
I believe he has forgotten the early Church was made up of Jews only…as well as he seems to have forgotten 3/4ths of the new testament all-together.
My question would be: Where in the word of God did the call go forth that tells us we are not to preach the Gospel to the Jews or any specific ethnic group? Answer, it can’t be found because its not in there.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10
M, im glad the post at biblewheel was a help to you. It confirmed a few things for me also.
I had been greatly disturbed with many of the things i had been reading about Hagee for some time now…especially the political group he heads up; CUFI, and his outspoken stance within the Christian Zionist movement. Nevertheless, i still checked out that video before posting it. It saddened me to post it for i use to watch John Hagee years ago, believing he preached the truth.
[...] Sola Dei Gloria also weighs in on this blatant heresy of Hagee here.“ [...]
Thanks for this important information brother in Christ. Thanks also for linking to http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/! It is an excellent antidote to the heresy of these people.
I wanted to add a link to my original post.
There were a couple posters who questioned the video…saying it looked tampered with. (mouth not matching the words exactly)
As i pointed out before, the clip was accurate–it aired on TV.
Well someone on youtube posted it again, so for anyone still doubting that he said what he said, GO HERE.
I considered switching out video’s in the original post, but settled for just adding it in the thread as a comment.
God bless,
pj
By Nancy A. Almodovar
Volume 1 No. 2
©2007, Silent Cry Ministries, Inc.
In the last edition of this column, the reader was encouraged to “take out this rusty old tool (apologetics) and sharpen it through studying its biblical and historical place within the Christian faith learning to use it skillfully as an ‘approved workmen rightly dividing the word of truth’.” What could not be foreseen when that was written was the attack that would come to the very fabric of the Christian faith: The question of whether or not Jesus came to be the Messiah.
In a new book by John Hagee entitled In Defense of Israel, this pastor of Cornerstone Church in Texas proceeds to make some very bold claims about Jesus and His mission that are counter to what has been taught since the days of Jesus and the Apostles. The question arises then whether or not we have been taught incorrectly all these millennia? Has Hagee stumbled upon a truth “hidden for 2000 years?” Did Jesus actually claim to be the Messiah, both for the Jew and Gentile? Since Hagee is such a popular preacher/teacher and his website boasts millions of followers, should what he publishes come under scrutiny?
Obviously the answer is yes for two reasons. One, if Hagee is right then we have been following someone who is not the Anointed One from God. Two, if Hagee is wrong than his teachings are wrong, and heretical and his teachings and he must be condemned as such.
Though there is much to discuss in this book the main point of the entire text is whether or not Jesus came to be and claimed to be the Messiah. First, one must define the terms that will be discussed: “Christ” is the English word for the Greek word “cristos” which means “anointed one”. Messiah is the English word for the Hebrew word “messiach” which means “anointed one”. They are therefore synonymous. If you call Jesus “The Christ” your are calling Him “The Messiah”. I point that out because you will see from the quotes that Hagee denies that Jesus came to be the Messiah, or Cristos/Christ. Since it is only right when discussing someone’s work to quote them it will be done and after each quote, we will then see what Scripture teaches. The question of whether or not Jesus came to be the Messiah is crucial to our faith for if He did not than our faith is in a mere man and our hope is lost.
“When Jesus was still an infant, the Holy Spirit spoke through Simeon concerning God’s sovereign will for the life of Jesus:
So he [Simeon] came by the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said: “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for mine eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel.
-Luke 2:27-32 emphasis added
The Holy Spirit of God announced through a Jewish prophet, Simeon, that the sovereign purpose for Jesus’s life was to be a light to the Gentiles (compare Isaiah 42:6).”
You will notice that Hagee does not include the entire statement in his analysis and leaves off “and the glory of Your people Israel” in his quote. Jesus came for both Jew and Gentile. He is a light to the Gentiles who had been outside the Covenant of Grace as well as the People of Israel who were saved by grace through faith in the coming Messiah. Hagee deliberately leaves off the second statement and leads you to believe that Jesus only came for the Gentile. However, even the Apostle Paul writes: “To the Jew first and then the Gentile” (Romans 1:16)
by saying that He calls Peter “Simon Bar-Jonah” not because Jonah was Simon’s father but because Simon would be like Jonah and bring the Gospel to the Gentiles. However, if you continue to read the passage in Matthew 12 you will see that Jesus declared Himself to be “something greater than Jonah…”
However, let us continue.
“If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn’t he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God’s Messiah, just as Moses had done? The Jews, knowing of Moses’s signs to Israel, asked for a supernatural sign that Jesus was indeed their Messiah. Jesus answered:
No sign will be given…except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
-Matthew 12:39-40”
Again, Hagee dissects the verse and removes a key portion. Jesus was responding to the request for a sign and says, “”An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” Jesus calls them, “an evil and adulterous generation”. The sign He would give those to whom He was speaking was the most important sign of His ministry, His resurrection. Jesus was going to give them a sign, just not a sign they wanted. Wrongly, Hagee diverts your attention in the verse by removing a key portion of the discussion and concludes that Jesus was solely speaking about the Gentiles. He continues by taking another verse out of context (p. 13
“If Jesus wanted to be Messiah, why did he repeatedly tell his disciples and followers to ‘tell no one’ about his supernatural accomplishments?”
Though there are times when Jesus squelched this publication of who He was, it was not always the case. For the most part, Jesus was not going to put on a show, neither had he come to be King but servant (cf. Phil 2:8).
“He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:15-16
And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ.” Mark 8:29
Then he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” And Peter answered, “The Christ of God.” Luke 9:20
In each of the first three Gospels, near the center of them, is the declaration of Peter as to whom Jesus is, “The Christ of God”/” The Messiah of God.” There is no doubt when you read these passages that Jesus was and is the Messiah of God. If not, than we have a serious problem because the Bible is in error and we can no longer claim it to be infallible and therefore it cannot be inspired. At this point what use is our faith if Jesus is not the Messiah.
The Gospel of John, written near the end of the Apostle John’s life gives us a startling declaration with regard to how Jesus’ Jewish followers saw him. John was writing to the churches who were a combination of Jewish and Gentile believers. When Andrew finds his brother he tells him straight out: “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). John 1:41ESV
When Jesus speaks with the woman at the well he tells her plainly that he is the Messiah.
“The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things. Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.” .” John 4:25-26 ESV
At Jesus’ trial before the High Priest, Jesus declares that He is the Christ, the Messiah:
But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. Matthew 26:63-65
Jesus, by his own testimony, declared that He is the Messiah. From the time of His birth and the angelic announcement, through his life and trial, and most assuredly by His resurrection, Jesus came to be the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
So what happens with Hagee and his denial that Jesus came to be the Messiah? Is he merely mistaken? Did he misrepresent his position? If his statements had been made once in the book, one might be able to give leniency saying it is a typo or misprint. However, time and again, throughout the book, John Hagee, a pastor who is required to preach and teach truth, denies that Jesus came to be the Messiah; teaching instead that Jesus is not the Christ, he is not the Messiah for both Jew and Gentile. What then does the Bible say of those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah?
Scripture says: “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22
At this Christmas time, when our children recite “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord (The Messiah the Lord)”(Luke 2:11), we must stand up and defend the truth against pernicious heresies and those who would promote such lies. Hagee’s own words condemn him in light of what the Bible teaches and proclaims. The truth is that Jesus came to be the Messiah and that He claimed to be the Messiah. Upon this declaration the Church has stood for two thousand years. Against such heresies as these the Church, made up of both Jew and Gentile, has contended against. Now, it is our turn to stand for truth, to contend for the faith once delivered unto us and to call Hagee to repentance and should he refuse, to renounce him as Scripture says, as “a liar” and remove his books from our shelves, his teaching tapes/cds/dvds from our homes and declare him “Anathema”.
The truth is this: Jesus is The Messiah, the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
May God have mercy and restrain His People, both Jew and Gentile, from falling into these heretical caverns and may He grants us, His People from every tongue, tribe and nation, both Jew and Gentile, to proclaim again that God sent Jesus to be the Messiah, the Savior of the world.
Bibliography
Hagee, John. In defense of Israel. First Edition; Lake Mary, Florida: FrontLine A Strang Company, 2007.
All Scripture quotations (outside of quotes from Hagee’s book) are from the English Standard Version.
Thank you so much Nancy for adding your post from Silent Cry Ministries, to the string of other comments.
I actually did a double-take at seeing it after logging in the blog, for i had just read it! I subscribe to True Discernment blog, and had received notice of it being posted there today.
God is good…..
Your call for John Hagee to repent was so important i made a separate post here which included quotes from your own post.
As we the Church, you are right–its the thing to do.
God bless you for pointing out and reminding us of the action we should take: my hope and prayer is that he listens. If enough of the body of Christ write, perhaps he might take a second look at the scriptures…and with the Spirit of God pointing out where he has strayed, repent.
If not, you are correct–we must:
[...] commentary and an extensive reply list is here: After finding a clip and hearing the man myself, the only thing I can say is he is now a heretic [...]
Thank-you for your wonderful website.
Jesus foretold that in the last days many would fall from faith in Him. We are seeing that now…in many different christian denominations. We must pray for them still, and most especially for the congregations, as many respect their elite leaders, and will follow suit.
The true Christians I’m afraid will become fewer and fewer, and will become as outcasts. We will be persecuted for our stand in Christ too.
Praise God to all of you real Lambs of God who see the truth.
Yes, I believe we are in the 11th hour.
Hi Linda, thanks for stopping by.
Yes i agree, many who we believed were solidly in the faith are falling away.
amen. What i think is taking many by surprise, or will shortly, is that this last day world wide persecution of those who truly follow Christ, is coming/will come from within the walls of the Churches as well from the obvious lost world.
A friend of mine from a Christian board i worked on years ago, wrote that he saw a civil war coming within the Church–i think we’re beginning to see that already.
stop by again
…God bless, pj
Thank-you PJ, and God Bless You Too!
I cannot say I am not afraid of physical persecution…even mental and emotional, but my prayer daily is for myself and all Gods children to remain fearless, and the rest God will provide us. His Holy Spirit will comfort us, and give us the courage we need, before we are transformed by Him and in Him.
Fear is from satan, and causes many to fall away. We must stay viligent in running through this race…TO WIN! and Jesus promised He would be by our side, and He/we WILL WIN!
In agape…I love you all. Just wish all true Christians were not so scattered across the globe so far and wide. Wish we could all come together in the same place to worship God in our homes… for strength, encouragement, and mostly for praising our Lord Jesus Christ! The NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES. HIS NAME…WITHIN ALL HIS MANY NAMES.
One day, we will be together…and I look forward to that.
Though many will fall away, and though many churches become corrupt, His spiritual church WILL NEVER EVER FALL AWAY…AND HIS DOCTRINE WILL REMAIN TRUE!
Peace to you all, and MARANATHA…LORD COME SOON!
The concept of a “messiah” was not unique to the Jews, but was a common theme among the various religions that existed centuries before and current with Y’shuah’s lifetime. For the Jews, their messiah (moshiach) was to be revealed by the simultaneous return of the prophet Elijah. The Moshiach’s arrival would occasion a host of events too numerous to expound upon here–some rooted in the Torah, others from oral and contemporary expectation. Performing miracles–even ressurection–was not part of moshiach’s portfolio. It must be remembered that Jews believe that ALL Jews are resurrected when moshiach comes (see the ancient Jewish prayer known as the Amidah), so resurrection in itself is less mystical to Jews than to the Gentiles. Nor was Y’shuah the first or the last of the Jews to be proclaimed the moshiach. A modern candidate, Rabbi Schneerson, had a large following among Orthodox Jews, but died several years ago, to his believers’ disappointment and realization that he was but a mortal man. So, when the rabbinate was confronted with Y’shuah, they saw no credible signs that the moshiach had arrived; no Elijah, no vanquishing of the Roman occupation, no heavenly ressurection of the Holy Temple, and no ressurection of all the Jews among many other things that were supposed to take place but didn’t. And so to proclaim to be the moshiach, when everyone who knew Y’shuah knew him to be a common carpenter born to common parents, and to not deliver what moshiach was supposed to deliver–irrespective of miracles as reported by his followers–was not only ludicrous, it was heresy. In short, Y’shuah was by a Jewish lens, a crazy heretic. Was he dangerous? It appears that both the Romans and the rabbinate thought so; to the Romans because he was in control of a large number of Jews who could insurrect, and to the rabbinate because he was a heretic that on one occasion had vandalized the temple grounds. It’s been 2000 years since that time, and while the Jews are astounded that this crazy heretic’s followers morphed with other pagan religions into the Christian world we know today, they are confident that they did not abandon the true moshiach, whom they still wait for along with Elijah to whom they open their doors to this day during every Passover seder. I think the Rev. Hagee–however clumsily–was trying to explain this.
I have to admit I have never been very relegious but i do beleive in Christ. I am afraid the evangelical movement is being steered toward a self-prophesing evil. Many are being taught that the war in the middle east will hasten the return of Christ. This is the beast system in my opinion to perpetuate agressive war for ones’ beliefs. I am afraid that people like Hagee are prophets for the anti-christ and if this beast does appear they will claim him as our messiah.
Hi Joe from Austin…im taking that as in Austin Texas?
As a fellow southerner (I’m in Kentucky) i’d have to agree with you on all your points.
Ever sense that something is right there in front of you–but, you can’t quite see it all clearly yet? Thats how i’ve felt about this Christian Zionist movement, and the more recent CUFI org. which is headed up by Hagee. I saw a term used in an article i read recently, referring to those like Hagee as “America’s Armageddonites”…its true.
Unless God steps in to put a halt to radical groups like Hagee’s, which is very possible that He will, they are going to bring persecution down on true followers of Christ. Just a hunch on my part….
Joe, we’re not saved by being religious, but by believing on God’s Son, Jesus Christ. I don’t even like the word religion, for it doesn’t mean today what it use to in America.
Follow Jesus Joe…thats all that matters.
God bless you and thanks for your comments–you made some excellent points!
Amen amen Linda!!
Regardless of what we see and hear, we can know that the gates of hell will never prevail against “THE” Church!
Some days we need to be reminded of that, especially when all we hear is the bad news concerning those leaders/churches falling away.
thank you so much for reminding me today!
God bless you sister
Marci…thanks for the comments.
I don’t know ‘what’ Hagee thought he was/is doing by making the claims he did in his newest book, but i have a pretty good hunch it goes back to his beliefs on a form of Dual Covenant theology.
Spiritual Pathways ministries posted an extensive (3) part article on this, you might be interested in reading them.
Part one HERE
Part two HERE
Part three HERE
check the articles out…i’d be interested in what you think after reading them…
God bless..
*just wanted to update this because Spiritual Pathways has added 2 more Posts in the series on John Hagee and his beliefs.
Part 4 HERE
plus, The “Another Gospel” Of John Hagee- Interlude
Yes, Marci, you are correct.
I realize your comment was not directed towards me, but I would like to interject a reply from my stand point. Hope you do not mind?
I also know the Hebrew name for Jesus. I have studied, as well as speak and write Hebrew. Also have studied Torah, and Jewish history for several years now. I am very aware of their outlook and opinions that form their thinking about Jesus.
I recognize the Jews as Gods chosen…not to be confused with chosen for purpose above or better then others, but rather chosen to fulfill many prophecies, including birthing forth the Christ child from their sect of people.
Scriptures teach the Jews eyes and understanding have been blinded for a season regarding the Christ child, but the veil placed over their eyes will be removed. The righteous Jews who come to recognize Jesus for who He is, will be rejoined to Him as branches on HIS vine.
I support the Jews spiritually in that I pray daily for them, as I do all others. We are to do this, but we must also be diligent in recognizing facts from fiction…truth from error…sin from holiness. Hagee recently, is not speaking truth. He is twisting Gods word.
We are never to judge anyones eternal destination…reserved only for God who knows the heart, but we are instructed to ‘discern’ truth from lies.
Hagee’s statements are point blank contrary to Jesus’ teachings.
Last note regarding the name of Jesus:
I am not ashamed to use the name Jesus, however I have also called upon Him by the Hebrew translation of His name. God is not limited, nor offended by what name we call, as long as we recognize who it is behind the name, and it is not a blasphemous name.
I prefer using Jesus, because many today cringe when hearing that name, but do not cringe when hearing simply God, or Hebrew versions. Therefore, I have concluded there is much power in the simple yet most powerful name of Jesus, which also delivered me when I called upon His name during a life and death situation, for which He immediately, and miraculously intervened.
Many people ‘tolerate’ others saying God, and even using other translations of Jesus’ name, etc., but they will not tolerate the name Jesus. They hate the name Jesus, because in their heart they really hate Him. If Jesus was not Divine, then the world would love Him, and not mind hearing His name, despite hearing Him called Jesus.
The first Christians (believers in Christ) were all Jews. Although many Christians today are not from the 12 tribes of Judea, we are ‘adopted’ into Gods family (which includes believing Jews…saved in Jesus Christ). Thus, in essence Christians are Jews by adoption, under the New Testament. Not by gene pool, but by adoption, as the bible declares.
After Jesus came to the world, WE MUST ALL BELIEVE IN HIM FOR SALVATION…INCLUDING RIGHTEOUS, YET NON-BELIEVING JEWS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Prior to Gods word made flesh via Christ, and Christ coming to the world, God made other determination and provisions for who was saved and who was not, and only He knows what those were. But since Jesus came to the middle east and made His sacrifice for the whole world, there is no other way of salvation, but through Him.
So I find it difficult to believe that pastor Hagee…an intelligent and articulate man, did not mean what he clearly stated. He knows exactly what he meant, and it is exactly how we have perceived it to be.
P.S. Jesus also said in scripture that He at first only came
for the Jews…not the gentiles, but then later, after
seeing the great faith some gentiles had in him, that He
was Savior for the whole world (paraphrasing here).
So for Hagee to say that Jesus is not the Messiah of
the Jews is way off mark from what Jesus taught. And
even Hagee’s questioning why Jesus did not ‘prove’
Himself more to the Jews is blasphemous…for we are
to live by faith.
It would be very easy for the whole world to just believe in Christ, if Christ ‘proved’ Himself, but what kind of love is that? It is no love at all. It is by faith that we prove our love in Him. Besides, He did perform many miracles, and still many did not believe in Him.
God does not have to prove Himself to anyone. When He returns, He will show us so much more, but first, we must prove our own faith to Him….prove real love for Him.
As young babes, He gave us all that we could digest for the moment. Then, one day, when we are spiritually grown in Him….when we are with Him after His return, will He feed us more of His Divine truths. Many cannot still handle the simple truths He gave us. So even if Christ proved Himself more to the Jews 2,000 years ago, many still would have rejected Him. It’s all about the faith factor.
Good post Linda
O.K. were do I start believe it or not i did not read the book. That is a good thing because I was a catholic and I converted to the protestant side but am not connected to any church I keep my ears and eyes open and I read the Bible the word of God I believe it is the living word. I believe that the Jews are God’s people and that God gave them the Nation of Israel. but the you tube segment is false Here are some scriptures to prove it. Acts 3:26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you Matthew 1: 18 - 23, This is the birth of Jesus and tells why he was born to save his people (Jews) Romans 1-16 it says I am not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes first for the Jew then for the Gentile. Here are some other scriptures that will bring out this false doctrine or real I think he was influence by Jezebel. Micah 5:2, Mathew: 16: 16-17, Mark 14: 61-62, Zechariah 9:9, Luke 2:11, John 1:41, Luke 24: 25-27 acts 3: 13-36 There are more but the one that is in the old testament in Isaiah 53 says it all. I’ve listen to John Hagee at his cornerstone church broadcasts. I enjoyed listening to him but he went astray on this book it looks like some Jezebel spirit got to him. Revelation 2. I hope the holy spirit will get to him and have a chat and put him on that narrow path. I believe it’s a bump on the round and he’ll take care of it. If not it will become a mountain.
Hagee is playing the whore to the Zionist pimp.
Thanks for the scriptures Giuseppe!
Yes, i agree with you, but it already appears though, to have become a mountain in his life. When any of us fall away from the truth of the gospel, its never over-night. It begins in the heart long before the obvious fruit of it is noticeable in our lives. With regards to Hagee, i wouldn’t be surprised to know that the things we’re only hearing of now, the obvious errors he has fallen into, did not begin a long time ago.
God bless you…
[...] Read about this here. [...]
These are interesting points by a multitude of posters.
But I would be a bit hesitant about throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or whatever other metaphor you want to use. This seems to be a rather convenient opportunity to take a swipe at dispensationalists taken here. My only concern is that just because a person chooses not to be a preterist doesn’t mean they are automatically a heretic.
J.Jones, thanks for the comment..
I don’t believe Hagee is your typical Christian who follows the teachings of dispensationalism, but what he has done by his false claims is feed into the claims of hyper-dispensationalism–that being the idea of God having two separate plans for salvation. One for the Jews and another for everyone else. This is wrong. Jesus is the only way for all people-regardless of race.
The reason i see this as especially dangerous today for all dispensationalist, is there appears to be a returning to this teaching of two people-two plans, in recent years among many who hold to this form of theology, at least with those i know personally. I credit that to the times we are living in–the closing days. When one gets this idea into their mind, it colors the way they see and/or interpret many other scriptures, prophecy, in particular.
If you’ve read Hagees book you can see that first hand. He attempts to make Israel and the Jews, the center of last day prophecy, rather then Christ.
I don’t believe anyone referred to dispensationalists as heretics. Hagees denial that Jesus came as the Messiah 2000 yrs ago, is heretical and makes him a heretic. Big difference there…
You mentioned Preterist. I’m not a preterist and as far as i know, not any one who commented is. (Though i could be wrong)…Are you of the opinion that if one does not hold to the views of dispensationalist teachings they are a preterist?
Thanks for your comments. This is a good learning discussion. I’ll admit that I might be ignorant and not aware of all the current Biblical interpretations and I appreciate your response.
Are you saying there’s perhaps a middle ground where you can actually befriend a dispensationalist and not call them a far-right wing Dominionist nutcase?
Maybe this is just my own experience, but it seems to me like anyone who believes in Bible prophecy yet to come (i.e. - it hasn’t all been fulfilled already) is getting marginalized in mainstream evangelicalism/fundamentalism/Christianity. There seems to be a growing belief that if you belief in the rapture you’re a gullible moron because the rapture is just a stupid theory that was started by a young Irish girl seeing a vision with her cows while milking them in 1821, or something to that effect. And anyone who dares mention the words “last days” or “second coming” may be well meaning, but they’re out to lunch.
There just seems to be a polarizing effect taking place. If one even dares to mention that perhaps Israel, as a literal nation, not figurative, might play a role in prophecy, you are viewed with scorn as a “Zionist” who wants to lick the ground of the Knesset out of your repsect for it. For that matter, if you even dare mention the word “prophecy” you are viewed as an uneducated hillbilly who thinks the next Black Helicopter is going to land in your front yard in fifteen minutes.
Some people on the opposite view seem to have such a disdain for all things prophetic and Israeli that you practically need to kiss the grave of Arafat and vow to join an anti-Israeli terrorist organization to be a “good Christian.”
Hey, I obviously don’t know all the answers. But whatever happened to people like me in the middle?: We don’t think the world revolves around Israel and that we have to bow down and serve the country and all kiss the feet of all Jews, BUT, neither do we hate all things Israeli like an Islamic terrorist and think the rapture is a fool’s doctrine that only gullible rednecks believe.
Maybe I’m wrong, but like I said, the current teachings in Christianity seem to be going in polar opposite directions and people like me in the middle are viewed as rejects by both sides.
Hi J…
Christians that hold to dispensationlist views of prophecy, are not the enemy of other Christians who don’t see last day prophecy, being fulfilled as they do….not at all. What has appeared to have risen up though, in recent years, is a more ‘radical’ form of dispensationalism J….its this that John Hagee is teaching. What it actually does is take the teachings of “D” [get tired of typing that long word out. LOL!] which begins with a “two people—two plans” theory and takes it even further into Dual Covenant theology.
If you’ve browsed around to any earlier posts of mine, you’ll come across a few from months back when i began to dig deeper into dispensationalism and its teachings. Why? Well i’ll tell you…
For well over 25 years if asked, ‘are you a dispensationalist?’ i would have [and did] say yes…i was. It was all i knew because it was all i had ever heard.
What happened was, i work on a prophecy board/forum J…the one im still on now; i’ve been an administrator on it since its ‘birth’ 2-1/2 yeas ago. Before that, i worked on a fairly well known prophecy board as a moderator for a long time. So as you can imagine i’ve been in a lot of prophecy discussions and debates, etc…
I, as a die-hard dispensationlist, began to see holes in what i believed to be the truth concerning end day prophecy. There were questions, when asked by others, that i had no answer to, because there was none to give…no scriptural “proof text” to point to, that didn’t require me to either speculate, or to contextualize scripture. This disturbed me greatly…
It was then, that the Holy Spirit led me to study in depth, the teachings of dispensationalism. To be frank, it was a hard time for me, because my theological ‘tree’ so to speak, was being shaken.
What i found was the basic groundwork laid in this teaching, i did not nor could not agree with at all! How could i have believed i was a dispensationlist all those years? Because i never took the time and effort to study it myself–im ashamed to say.
The foundational belief [which most all other beliefs depend on in this teaching] is the recognition of a distinction between Israel and the Church, …as in “never the twain shall meet”. The belief that the new covenant was never intended to include the Jews/Israel, and that they were never to be considered a part of The Church. (Those were Darby’s beliefs..i read some of his writings) Or as Ryrie summarized it: “The one new covenant has two aspects, one which applies to Israel, and one which applies to the church”
The main point in this type of prophetic theology which bothered me the most, was it was not centered on Christ, but on a people and land.
I won’t go on but will offer you a link or two, if you would care to read more on this theology:
This first link it to an open letter written by someone who like myself, was once a dispensationalist, and also came to see how the teachings eclipsed Christ. The Holy Spirit led me to this one night–after reading it i knew why: it confirmed what i had seen myself.
* “Dispensationalism and the Eclipse of Christ (An Open Correspondence)
*THE PEOPLE OF GOD (you can read it on-line)
*Eschatology, at Monergism (this has oodles of links which explain the different views today on prophecy)
One of the best books i’ve read on the 4 most common views of end-time prophecy is Steve Greggs, Revelation-Four Views. Its a wonderful commentary–for its not biased one way or the other, but only goes through the book of Revelation, chapter by chapter, and has all 4 views side by side. What amazed me was i found at different times, i agreed with one or the other of the 4! You can check it out HERE
They are all around you J…im one of them. Just because one does not hold to nor believe dispensationalist teachings are correct interpretations of prophecy, does not mean they hate Jews or anyone else. What it does mean is they see the Jews who are not Messianic (believers in Christ as the Messiah) as lost, and like any other people lost, in need of a Savior. And to teach that they can be saved any other way, or have a special/different way or ‘time’ to be saved, is not believing the bible which states:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John.14:6
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 2:3
Acts 10:36 “The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)–
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;
for there is no distinction;
Romans 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,…
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(By the way, you could call me redneck…i live in Kentucky)
God bless…
I was educated at Phil Bible College in the 70’s when Dallas Theological graduates were our primary BIble teachers. So between that and a very strong doctrinal teaching home church, I have always believed that the Lord worked through the Jews until Pentecost, the Church which consists of Jews and Gentiles until the Rapture and then God will again use the Jews (144000) during the tribulation to reach those that have not heard…I do believe that they will be God’s chosen people for eternity but that we will all rule and reign with Christ. This is a simplistic explanation. Nevertheless, Dispensationalism as taught by Scofield, Pettingill, Mason, etc did not give 2 ways of salvation..It sounds like there have been distortive errors over the years. We can talk of grafting as in Rom 11 and the times of the Gentiles coming to an end…etc but that has to wait til another day…Suffice it to say that Dispensationalismn never has taught anything but one way through Christ both in the Old Testament looking forward to Christ or in the NT. All people everywhere and in every ‘dispensation’ have always been saved through Christ alone. John 14:6
Hi dmccormick…thanks for the comment…
Yes i agree, there has been a distortion, and even more so in recent years; but i still believe even much of the distortions have been based on the original [classic] teachings of dispensationalism, as taught by Darby and Scofield. When one begins their study of the new testament/new covenant, in particular as it has to do with prophecy, with the belief there are more then one people of God, its always going to lead to interpreting prophetic scriptures in light of that belief.
Came upon something today which i believe might help to explain how/why Hagee has made the claims he has in this book of his: In Defense of Israel. I don’t think you can divide these false statements he has made in the book from his group CUFI, and what it believes. This was written by a Messianic Rabbi.
Can you see after reading this, the compromising that Hagee has been involved in for some time now, which has led to the false claims in his book, that:
-Jesus did not come to Earth to BE the Messiah.
-Jesus refused by word and deed to be the Messiah.
-The Jews cannot be blamed for not accepting what was never offered.
Judaism is not Christianity, for they deny Jesus is the Messiah…they are lost. So how can Hagee justify that he allows members of the Judaic community to speak totally against what the Word of God says, that being, Jesus is the only way to the Father, at his own CUFI meetings?
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“WHAT’S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT?”
By Messianic Rabbi Jack Zimmerman,
Congregation Beth Simchat HaMashiach,
Phoenix, Arizona
July 24th. 2007
Washington D.C. was all abuzz last week, and this time it wasn’t our elected officials causing a stir:
And indeed, there’s much good to say about Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Led by San Antonio based Pastor John Hagee, the organization takes seriously God’s edict in Genesis 12, “I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel”. And for the past year if not more, Hagee has taken CUFI on the road to cities across America, holding events featuring Jewish songs, speeches about how great Israel and its people are, and giving out checks for Jewish causes all along the way.
The result has been that Jewish people have begun opening their hearts to these Gentile Christians, and for the first time in nearly 2000 years, Jews are fellowshipping with Gentiles and NOT seeing the goyim as the enemy, but also seeing they have a powerful national voice (Hagee) petitioning Congress to support the Jewish State. I will be the first one to declare how wonderful this is, and I thank God for this aspect of what CUFI is accomplishing.
However, what I’m trying to figure out is, why are most believers ignoring the larger picture?
Some months ago, when the CUFI road-show came to Phoenix, I attended the event. I was thrilled to hear Christians speaking up for the Holy Land, saying it should not be divided, that it was the responsibility of all to bless that nation as God instructed us to do. As a Jew who’d grown up in New York hearing a number of Gentiles I knew then call me a “Christ-killer”, it was a refreshing change to hear Gentiles apologizing to us for such comments, and replacing them with love.
And then came the videotape, and my heart sank.
Hagee showed a CUFI promotional video of a recent “Night to Honor Israel” event, featuring a pro-CUFI Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. The Rabbi said something to the effect of, “CUFI is a great organization; we can all be friends without our having to convert”.
After the tape, the auditorium erupted in enthusiastic applause.
Excuse me, am I missing something here?
On video for all to see, CUFI has given this Rabbi a platform to spread the message that Jewish people do not have to accept Jesus, and furthermore, that CUFI has no interest in them doing so.
Is everybody still applauding? Sorry, but I have a huge problem with this.
Nationwide, a message is now being promoted by Christians saying, “Hey, if you’re Jewish, don’t worry about the Jesus barrier that’s separated us—we don’t think you really need Jesus anyway, and we’ll show you a video of one of our Rabbi friends, just so we can prove it to you!
And despite this, everytime CUFI holds an event somewhere in the U.S., I hear Christians singing praises about how great it was. How can I say this tactfully….have you all gone mad??
Let me give you several reasons why I haven’t joined the pro-CUFI bandwagon:
#1-While I think it’s great that Jews and Gentiles are establishing major friendships for perhaps the first time since the first century, if it’s at the expense of a message being put forth that Jewish people don’t need Jesus, of what value is it?
Is everybody still applauding?
#2-Whether they know it or not, CUFI’s proclamations only make my job harder. When Christians send a message that Jewish people don’t have to accept Jesus, it makes messianic rabbis like me appear all the more as extremists when I suggest to those same Jewish people, that they do! I envision in the not too distant future speaking to a Jewish person about Jesus, and having them say to me, “Jack, haven’t you heard? Your own group of Jesus believers says we don’t need Him. You need to get on board with CUFI and get with the program; what’s wrong with you!”
Is everybody still applauding?
#3-CUFI defenders say that Jesus is mentioned at their events: “Pastors from the local area speak and make sure they declare their position in Messiah”.
While I’m certainly glad that local pastors make sure to declare their position in Messiah, I’m not sure if that’s any great revelation to the Jewish people attending. Jewish people already know that pastors believe in Jesus. Problem is, the combination of seeing pastors who say they believe in Jesus, and then showing a videotape where an Orthodox Rabbi says it isn’t necessary for Jewish people to do so, continues to send the exact same message that Jews have been thinking for years anyway—Christians need Jesus, (and the pastors obviously confirm this) and Jewish people don’t. (and the pro-CUFI Orthodox Rabbi obviously confirms that).
Is everybody still applauding?
#4-CUFI supporters claim that eventually, Jewish people will see their love and accept Jesus as a result. Really?
Between 90-95% of all Jewish people marry out of their faith. In such families, if the Christian spouse promotes Jesus, they many times lead the Jewish spouse to Jesus. However, if the Christian spouse does not promote Jesus to the Jewish spouse, the Jewish spouse does not accept Jesus, no matter how much love there is in the marriage! More likely, both partners end up embracing traditional Judaism.
So, in reality, what’s love got to do with it?
Without the message of the need for Jesus included, absolutely nothing. To me, it’s silly to think that an organization telling Jews they don’t need Jesus but showing them love, will get these Jewish people to embrace Jesus. Think about this—if I love you and say that you don’t need Jesus, what motivation would you have to disobey the one who shows you so much love, turn your back on them, and accept Jesus in the process? It doesn’t happen in mixed marriages where both partners love each other more than CUFI ever could love them if Jesus isn’t part of the mix. The Jewish person simply doesn’t accept him; that’s just plain fact.
If you still don’t see the problem, maybe this will clarify things for you:
95% of all Jewish people are saved through Gentiles and the Church.
After a recent CUFI event here in Phoenix, a Pastor had called a messianic friend of mine who was going to speak at his church on the subject of how their church congregation could share the good news with Jewish people. The pastor said, “sorry, but I have to cancel your speaking here. I went to the Night to Honor Israel Event, and have decided to adopt Hagee’s methodology—I’m good friends with a local Rabbi, and I know it would upset him if I brought in someone who spoke about “converting” Jews, and I don’t want to lose his friendship, so I’ll have to say no”.
Great. That’s just one more church whose congregants won’t learn how to keep Jewish people out of hell. If more Pastors follow suit as a result of going to a CUFI event, is that a good thing?
If you’re still applauding, I have one more question to ask you….why?
In closing, let me just say you don’t have to tell me how terrific it is that we have an organization that supports Israel and shows love. I know all this. Don’t spout to me about how great it is that for the first time in 1900 years, Jews and Gentiles are coming together in d