This is the New Breed, those who believe they are the Churches future: What do you think, can we forgive someone’s sins?
I posted this under the thread about Lee Grady’s recent commentary, ‘Can We Avoid a Charismatic Civil War?’, but want to include the link here as well. This is a very serious reply to Lee’s commentary written by Dan at Cerulean Sanctum blog; The Coming Charismatic Civil War. Read it if you have the time, for what Dan is talking about includes what you’re seeing in this clip which is being taught to people attending these New prophetic and Supernatural Schools of Ministry.
Sola Dei Gloria 
Hi there
Is there any possible way you can please e-mail me a copy of this video clip? Not a link to it. I don’t have internet at home, can’t watch it at work, so would like to save it on my flashdrive and take it home to watch.
Thank you
In Jesus
Janine
[…] Posted by Job on July 11, 2008 From Soli Deo Gloria: Watch This: SINS FORGIVEN IN THE THIRD WAVE […]
PJ,
While I have a problem with other things in the video, I didn’t see the comment about forgiving sins itself as the real issue.
Jesus Himself told His disciples:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
—John 20:22-23
That’s pretty clear.
HOWEVER, I believe that has to be a two-way street. I can offer forgiveness to someone in Jesus’ name IF that person wishes to repent. But in the case of a dying man who is unconscious, he has no way to repent, to confess his sins with his lips, for a Christian to grant him absolution in Jesus’ name. That’s what bothers me in this case.
There is a really good teaching about the Charismatic at: http://swordandtrowel.org/philsermons.htm. Scroll down to the year 2003 and look for sermon # 2003-02-26-PJ, or just search (Ctrl-F) for ‘Charismatic’ and you will be there. The sermon is downloadable in MP3 format. It’s just about the best, most objective teaching on the movement that I have heard.
What form will deception take when we are at height of end-time period? I can only imagine what will be spoken then. It looks like race to the abyss.
DLE,
Perhaps you misunderstood what this young student was saying. She was relating an experience in which she was with a dying man in a coma, one who apparently was not saved. I base that assumption on what she says:
“you never know who you’re going to meet in the last second of their life, to bring people into God’s kingdom…”
She goes on to say that (because she heard God’s voice) she forgave this dying man’s sins–and that he was saved because of her action.
Is this biblical my friend? And is that what Jesus was saying in the scripture you posted…
First a practical application:
I have lost loved ones and friends…can i stand in authority before God and say “I forgive all their sins, so now they don’t need to repent and accept Jesus for themselves”
Well if so, then we as Christians have been going about this whole thing all wrong for 2000 years!
Instead of:
We should just go around telling the lost their sins are forgiven, and leave out preaching the gospel, repentance, salvation through faith, etc etc…
in other words why bother with preaching!
Salvation which insures eternal life in the kingdom of God is an INDIVIDUAL act and decision to be made by every person. We can’t accept Christ for someone lost…and God alone can forgive sins.
We can and are told to forgive others who have sinned against us—but we do not have the power or authority to forgive another who has sinned against God.
Wrongly this young woman believes she did (do this) and we do…
Now look at the scripture you quoted in context:
When Jesus ‘breathed’ upon them, saying ‘receive ye the Holy Ghost” he was not telling them [in his next words- verse 23] that he was placing them in the position to decide who’s sins are forgiven or who’s are not–nor was he saying they THEMSELVES had the power [now] to forgive one who has sinned against God…
What he was saying was (in plain language)
“you’ve heard me teach for over 3 years–you have my doctrine: now as i breath upon you you have my Spirit, by which to take my doctrine/teachings of eternal life and/or eternal damnation to the lost. Those who HEAR YOU and accept your words of eternal life will be forgiven, those who refuse them will not be forgiven”
In other words the power and life was in their message–their preaching.
If Jesus meant more then this, then we would have account after account of the Apostles doing nothing more then going around telling any/everyone ‘i forgive your sins’..you are saved now’! ‘
The only people i know of who believe this in some part is the RCC. They believe we can go to a man–a priest, confess our sin and have the priest absolve us of all sin.
They are wrong–BUT at least they require the person to confess their sin–
This young woman is being taught [and believes] she can forgive anothers sins without them even confessing them! lol
From the commentary of Jamieson, Fausset, Brown-
21. Then said Jesus–(prepared now to listen to Him in a new character)
Peace be unto you. As my Father hath sent me, so send I
22. he breathed on them–a symbolical conveyance to them of the Spirit. and saith, Receive ye the Holy Ghost–an earnest and first-fruits of the more copious Pentecostal effusion.
23. Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, &c.–In any literal and authoritative sense this power was never exercised by one of the apostles, and plainly was never understood by themselves as possessed by them or conveyed to The power to intrude upon the relation between men and God cannot have been given by Christ to His ministers in any but a ministerial or declarative sense–as the authorized interpreters of His word, while in the actings of His ministers, the real nature of the power committed to them is seen in the exercise of church discipline. link
Janine
I’m sorry but i wouldn’t know how to do what you ask…you’re asking a computer illiterate, perhaps someone else can help you with information on how this could be done???
PJ~
Check this out:
Todd Bentley quits Lakeland and GodTV has suspended broadcasts due to the Nightline story:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/newsflash-todd-bentley-quits-lakeland-after-revealing-abc-nightline-airs/
PJ,
I understand what is wrong with what the girl said and the context in which it is being used. I clearly understand the error.
But I think your analysis of John 20 is a severe stretch for what is said. The statement Jesus makes is plain. It doesn’t take semantic gymnastics. Jesus is not making any comment about preaching. You’re reading that into the passage. It simply isn’t there.
He’s saying that if someone seeks forgiveness, you as an ambassador of Christ can offer that person the assurance of His forgiveness–or not. It’s that simple. I have a host of commentaries agreeing with me on this.
DLE,
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue of a man [or woman] having the authority to stand in proxy for one lost, to enable the person receiving forgiveness for sin. I had to go to Christ to receive forgiveness…and have never heard of any other way to receive forgiveness or eternal life–but through Christ.
lol….i have (probably) an equal number which says different…so we won’t get into the war of commentaries.
(For anyone interested though, on what church fathers have written on this verse, just type in a search engine: commentary on John 20)
God bless you brother…
Mary i saw that too!
In fact i received notice of it from FF Ministry today.
As hesed posted at lakeland revival blogspot: Elvis Has Left The Building!
I read a notice at ABC Nightline tonight that his decision to take a break occurred right after the nightline episode aired the other night:
quote…
UPDATE: After this story aired on “Nightline,” Fresh Fire Ministries released a statement announcing that preacher Todd Bentley would be taking time off “to refresh and to rest” after having spent four months in Lakeland, Fla., leading revival meetings. In the meantime their Lakeland broadcasts on GOD TV are put on hold. link
Janine, maybe you could go to your local library to watch the video if you can’t watch it at work or at home. I played around with it to see if you could send a video some way other than a link but I don’t see any way to do that other than PJ sending you a link. I hope you find a solution.
I wanted to post the link to this school of the supernatural, ran by Bill Johnson, where this young woman is attending; this link is the page to the schools guest speakers, which gives us a clue as to why this young lady has come to believe she has the authority to do as she claimed in this clip.
Bethel Church School of Supernatural Ministry
oh man ~ if this isn’t the fulfillment of the mark of man (666)… the self-deification of man/woman… then I don’t know what is.
keep praying, DearSaints, that people would STUDY God’s Word and draw near to Him in Spirit and Truth.
– dear PJ,
– honestly I ve to say, that I find on your blog a ..kind of sphere, that is unlike the lots of other sites I tried.
– and I mean that wholeheartedly POSitive..
about the topic;
I was around 94 in one of the waves of Toronto, that came down here also;
I never trusted it ( I have a long history of … having to deal with ..say dark entities ),
and I recognize a lot, a lot in how this girl also is absolutely inexpierienced in whatever spiritual law or even BASICS…
..and it worries me a lot. It s like a schoolgirl in a bigboys man’sshop – I am afraid that after a time, hundreds of these ‘selfproclaimed ‘ youngsters will walk around like spiritual ‘loose canons ‘, and –
whether they realize it or not – actually will open doors by the people who they meet to DARK powers
– as happened with the Toronto’s than backhere; but that seems just to have been a PRElude..
How it can be, that it takes appereantly years and years of searching ( at least, for me !) ; trying and testing and learning to hear whether a voice is from Him, or from the opposite side –
and goodwilling but so naiv youth as these ( and more to come !) play, litteraly, with so terribly powerful things, they have no IDEA of…?
Please explore this further PJ,
– I m afraid these will be more of harm as the obvious false preachers…
Love,
Loneman
Holland
Thank you brother!
You’re libel to find anything posted here 🙂
I set out to just share things which i come across which interest me having to do with the Church, Christ, or the Christian life, in hopes it might interest someone else too. Plus i toss in a few thoughts of my own once in awhile.
So you’ll find anything from news items, to studies on theology–
Hope you find some things which interest you enough to stop back often!
Yes, amen that is my concern as well. To be frank i think its inevitable that this will happen and most likely is already occurring now. These young people, like this young woman are not being mentored by those who encourage bible study…but instead they are encouraging these young people to seek after signs and wonders and spiritual experiences.
Todd Bentley is a prime example of one who was mentored by these people. This is why today he has little knowledge of the word of God but a boat load of ‘spiritual experiences’ he talks about constantly.
Because these young people (and Todd is young also–he’s only 32) have never been taught to test all things by scripture, they believe every voice–every experience is of God.
You mentioned “loose cannons”…well you’re right!
Think of 1000’s of Todd Bentley’s in a couple years–running all over the world, inside our churches, spreading their ‘impartation’ and encouraging others to have experiences like they do which include trips to heaven, personal Angels which communicate with them constantly, etc…
Its a frightening thought!
Brother thats a good question, one that i don’t think has an easy answer.
They are indeed playing with something which they have no idea of how dangerous it is–
Some of us, like yourself who understands what these demonic entities are capable of, know these people are playing with fire. But they do not know my friend…because no one ever warned them.
What is sad is after people like those in these ‘supernatural schools’ are mentored and taught by false prophets and teachers, get a ‘taste’ of what they believe is the power of God, but is in fact demonic power, its hard to reach them then with the truth.
A spirit of deception takes them over and they no longer have ears to hear the word of God. Only God can reach them then…
This unholy power will eventually destroy them.
God bless you Loneman…